Noxid post_id=36716 time=1559030658 user_id=457 Wrote:I don't really have much strong feelings on the other suggestions, other than I feel like gimmicky builds should be able to keep their gimmicks.

Jupiter_Storm post_id=36730 time=1559155281 user_id=693 Wrote:

Noxid post_id=36716 time=1559030658 user_id=457 Wrote:I don't really have much strong feelings on the other suggestions, other than I feel like gimmicky builds should be able to keep their gimmicks.

This part cannot be overlooked lightly, a character should never ever ever be punished in a team fight for building to be particularly effective as a member of team, against a team. You will only ever get clean-swept by a setup like this if all the characters on your team are specifically minmaxed to be most effective as a solo combatant. I would even be willing to prove this fact if evidence is honestly even required.

For this reason I don't see why CC's should be hindered on Turn 0. It's never been decisive for anything I've participated in, I'm sure other team-oriented characters will agree if they happen to stumble upon this thread.

Kameron8 post_id=26390 time=1500003672 user_id=215 Wrote:The map is (as far as PvP is concerned) a 21x19 grid, spawning teams in a wave shape exactly 10 tiles away from the enemy on the same X-axis as them. This heavily favors rush builds, since the 'First Move' talent will almost always allow a character to bridge that gap in 3m or less.

That means, the current 'top tier' round 0 aggressors are builds such as:

- Demon Hunters with guns, who can Burn up -> Winged Serpent to your team for one momentum, then shoot all of you with lead storm. Twice.
- VA's, who can run all the way behind the person they're facing and cutthroat them.
- Duelists, who can run most of the way, sidecut if they can't quite reach, and continue attacking afterward.

Rush builds don't extend to only damage, however. Crowd control rushing is equally, if not more desirable in large scale situations. Group-wide silence, interference, knockdown, etc, can win a fight before it really starts.

To avoid sounding like I'm rambling, the point I'm making is that not only are people spawning too close to the enemy teams for PvP, they're starting too close to their allies as well. My suggestion is to change the spawn pattern to a 'four-corners' pattern, that adds a little more distance to combatants, and unclumps larger teams to minimize the impact of AoE.

Current:

Suggested: (People will prioritize spawning in the lowest numbers, meaning a 1v1 would place people in slots 1 and 2, a 2v2 would place people in slots 1, 2, 3, and 4, and so on.)

With the new map, people would be hard pressed to cross the entire distance and still attack. Long ranged bows, Raging Sidecuts, and Winged Serpent can still accomplish it, but if you pull everyone to the very far corners you invert the problem and benefit buff heavy builds. I base these distances off of the idea that 11-13 move is what most people can achieve if they're trying to go fast, and 10 is the hard cap for heavy armored tanks.

Since the new spawning coordinates would be (6,4) (8,2) (14,2) (16,4) against (6,18) (8,16) (14,16) (16,18), the furthest anyone can ever be from an opponent is in a 1v1 scenario, where they'll be 20 tiles away. In 4v4 scenarios people will be 14 tiles from the nearest enemy. This means 19 tiles and 13 tiles of movement are required to get into melee for the worst and best case scenario, respectively.

That's just my idea, the real takeaway from this is that more distance than what we have now is needed, and unclumping large groups is also very important.