• Stay away from them.
  
• Unequip Riposte before fighting a Papilion.
  
• Don't attack them.
  
• Focus on the Papilion and they will dispel on their own.

• It costs 6M, which leaves someone as a sitting duck for a very miniscule ability. Not worth one turn of leaving yourself open to attack.
  
• 12 SP is useless to anyone who's not a Mage.
  
• The Pollen's infliction rate is the same as your chance to inflict, so whether they hit you or not, it can still not activate. And then there's the status mitigation again.
  
• Butterflies can actually fuck you over once it ends because of the upkeep cost and how it bypasses the limit (so say you have 10, that's 10 FP a turn, and to dispel them on your own it costs 1M and even more FP), but even with 6 out, it still costs 4 FP a turn with Capacity's regen.

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=4205#p4205 Wrote:Chaos » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:45 pm[/url]"]Papilion
-There could be a two-digit limit on how many butterflies are around, but an upkeep cost? make their stats worth something and then we'll talk.
-You're still going straight into their little butterfly aura thing, hit or miss; why should you somehow not go in if you whiff? It sounds like an unnecessary nerf to an already-struggling invocation.

Shaitan
-I think Black Rend could just use an FP reduction. trying to make the scale off level will turn it into a killer, and throwing in Fear is too much overkill (and a guaranteed Hexer combo)
-....There is nothing right with this Dark Claw suggestion. Giving +12 to practically every melee weapon is ridiculous; Backstabbing builds will achieve even more ridiculous supercrits, to name an obvious situation. Why should guns be given the short end on durability? There's no bowstring to cleave or any pages to rip up; a gun is never that fragile. Believe it or not, the damage bonus applying to guns was actually justified; Shaitan's horrendous WIL growth makes it very hard to get any good use out of Arcane Gun's WIL-based damage bonus. Really, this skill is far better off as it is right now.

Lich
-Liches are supposed to be the ultimate glass cannons. If you were looking for something survivable, you should've never looked at this race to begin with. That being said, just splitting damage to FP doesn't really suit the Lich here; you'd be better off putting that skill in a future Class.

Redtail
-....How in the world is seeing the 'dice results' metagaming? If it was that secretive, it wouldn't have shown up on the Redtail to begin with. However, with the ability to change your dice to something that wouldn't bother you at minimum roll, I think this kind of ability shouldn't be happening.

Quote:-....There is nothing right with this Dark Claw suggestion. Giving +12 to practically every melee weapon is ridiculous; Backstabbing builds will achieve even more ridiculous supercrits, to name an obvious situation. Why should guns be given the short end on durability? There's no bowstring to cleave or any pages to rip up; a gun is never that fragile. Believe it or not, the damage bonus applying to guns was actually justified; Shaitan's horrendous WIL growth makes it very hard to get any good use out of Arcane Gun's WIL-based damage bonus. Really, this skill is far better off as it is right now.

Quote:-Liches are supposed to be the ultimate glass cannons. If you were looking for something survivable, you should've never looked at this race to begin with. That being said, just splitting damage to FP doesn't really suit the Lich here; you'd be better off putting that skill in a future Class.

"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=4207#p4207 Wrote:Ryu-Kazuki » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:28 pm[/url]"]After doing some more calcs and playing around with the new status formula, I wanted to point out how worse Invite Insanity + Aposemagika would be, even with a 2 FP cost for Butterflies.



Seirina's current build. Evo/Hex.

49 + (68/2 = 34) + 33 + Payback (10% without the cursed weapon) = 126% Status Infliction. That's great for a WIL Based Mage, and of course Magic Gunners.



Maikito's Rock's build. MG/Evo.

59 + (63/2 = 31.5 rounded down to 31) + 40 = 130%.



Ignatius' Monte's Build. MG/Eng.

71 + (44/2 = 22) + 36 = 129%.

Vs



Jesusmod's Virgil's Build. MG/Hex.

19 + 38 + No Mods = 57% Resistance.


Seirina vs Virgil, result, 69% chance.

Rock vs Virgil, result, 73% chance.

Monte vs Virgil, result, 72% chance.


Don't misunderstand, I'm not complaining about the chance, that's pretty decent odds, although that's against someone with moderate amounts of RES and LUC, with no items / skills / traits that go against status infliction. Granted, these are all WIL based Papilions.

Let's see how that goes on a Melee Papilion. I haven't been able to find anyone who plays them, so I'll use the GC as an example of average stats a Melee Papilion can get with a STR/SKI build.



So taking SKI, WIL, and LUC into account.

60 Levels with a 30% chance, 60 x .3 = 18 WIL. Plus bonus 6 = 24 WIL.

60 Levels with a 75% chance, 60 x .75 = 45 SKI. Plus bonus 8 = 53 SKI.

60 Levels with a 55% chance, 60 x .55 = 33 LUC. Plus bonus 5 = 38 LUC.

53 + (24/2 = 12) + 38 = 103%.

Vs 57% = 46% chance to inflict statuses as a Melee Papilion.

Keep in mind, this is without any form of resistance bonuses, and RES and LUC can both get higher on characters.

Now, Butterflies only give 5 statuses, so it's a 1 in 5 chance to get the status you want which is 20%. This is after your chance to inflict a status, which is pretty much the flip of a coin. Even less if the enemy did have status resistances.

3 of the statuses can be immunized.

1 is affected by level and only currently works in PvP.

2 can be cured by LBs.

3 of them can be immunized through items.

3 can be immunized through skills.

The most they last is 2 - 3 rounds.

Their max level is 3.

These statuses are very weak, and easily mitigated.

Butterflies only activate if they are dispelled in melee range. Options to avoid that.

• Stay away from them.
  
• Unequip Riposte before fighting a Papilion.
  
• Don't attack them.
  
• Focus on the Papilion and they will dispel on their own.

With that being said, dropping the cost to 2 FP is beneficial (not mentioning the limit, because the limit on ho many that can be summoned isn't so much of a big deal) for a WIL based Papilion, but with a 1 FP upkeep for something that has 1 in every stat, may not inflict a status, can easily be avoided, really makes it a nuisance for Mage Papilions, or all, especially ones with no FP regen because of the FP focus you're keeping on due to your skills / spells.

Now, Aposemagika alleviates this, yes. But here are the problems with Aposemagika, especially after the change.

• It costs 6M, which leaves someone as a sitting duck for a very miniscule ability. Not worth one turn of leaving yourself open to attack.
  
• 12 SP is useless to anyone who's not a Mage.
  
• The Pollen's infliction rate is the same as your chance to inflict, so whether they hit you or not, it can still not activate. And then there's the status mitigation again.
  
• Butterflies can actually fuck you over once it ends because of the upkeep cost and how it bypasses the limit (so say you have 10, that's 10 FP a turn, and to dispel them on your own it costs 1M and even more FP), but even with 6 out, it still costs 4 FP a turn with Capacity's regen.

Now to add onto this, melee or people who don't commonly use Invocations, aren't going to normally get the talent, especially for a measly little butterfly storm. So as a melee Papilion with 24 WIL, the formula would be, DMG (which a lot of people can easily get over 100 damage these days with normal attacks) - WIL (24) = % to break the invocation. Let's say, hypothetically, 100 dmg, with a crit. 100 - 24 = 76% chance to break the invocation. So as a melee Papilion, you just wasted 1 full turn, and 20 FP to sit there and look like an idiot with fairy wings. The only way they can protect that, is to sacrifice talent points in order to protect a skill they probably won't even use because it barely benefits them.

Due to the status update, the chances of these racials being problems have dropped a good bit, even more so if you actually have one or two status reduction items.

The limit on how many is fine to me, I don't personally care when it comes to that. They may already be currently FP extensive, but I'd rather keep it at 10 FP than 2 FP and a 1 turn upkeep when they already barely do anything. Maybe if they had higher priority than the caster and attracted monsters and you could select their targets? Sure. PvE gets a bonus that way.

As for Aposamagika? I'd not accept the change, as Chaos and I did point out, you are getting up close and personal with someone covered in magical pollen, if you attack them, hit or miss, that's on you. If Aposemagika got dropped to 3M? I'd accept everything (and this includes the Invite Insanity upkeep and changes) but the "if you miss, nothing happens".

Otherwise? The presented change is only going to nerf Papilions more than they need to be whatsoever.