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+--- Thread: Skill points vs Skill Slots (/showthread.php?tid=7226)
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RE: Skill points vs Skill Slots - FatherCrixius - 09-05-2020
In my opinion, We're at a point already past this discussion.
Meta builds already avoid investment in skill, and have no issues in terms of skill selection; more a skill variety one. I almost never end up building skill on my IC's, and in only one of them do I think about swapping my skills about pre fights- another option that hasn't really been brought up here, the skill slot limitation promotes a lot of metagaming. The stronger classes don't necessitate more skill due to having less skills, but skills that do more per slot.
Otherwise, your generally going to destiny into a class for more slots if its absolutely needed, though this is rarely a limitation in the unga class combinations. Mages and tome users have the easy option of spellbook being an effective 25 skill, allowing said classes to be at a significant stat advantage in cases where your trying to go stat for stat, and are already a very stat efficient class with their defensive scaling damage options.
In my opinion, a blanket increase of slots wouldn't be especially harmful, but should lead to further buffs to destinying and monoclassing classes, as this would be disincentivized otherwise, and few classes would derive much mechanical benefit from having the option to equip more skills, and at the very least make offer players more options to take in fights.
However, outside of a case by case fix, or a very awkward and specific boost to skill slots? There isn't any easy ways to 'remedy' this if you believe giving more slots across the board should be avoided.
RE: Skill points vs Skill Slots - Autumn - 09-05-2020
There are some classes in the game that just happen to not need as many skill slots as others, so avoiding giving them too many skill slots is the key goal here, as Kameron brought up earlier, there's no point in raising the floor when you can normalize the classes that end up being a pain in the ass to slot for, you won't see any summoner promo or rogue promo usually clammering for skill slots, but all 3 of the soldier promos and martial artist promos eat your slots like nothing else, with monk being the only tame one of the MA bunch.
You could make the argument that perhaps some classes require a bit more investment sure, but a singular class should not require half of the skill slots of a build with moderately heavy skill slot build, BK can take up over 12 skill slots, my Verglas with a pretty moderately heavy skill slot investment needs to use a tome to equip almost everything, having 12 total skill slots dedicated to verglas, with 15 total skills to grab if I so wanted to:
![[Image: YGaJWmT.png]](https://i.imgur.com/YGaJWmT.png)
![[Image: RVjo3ZT.png]](https://i.imgur.com/RVjo3ZT.png)
![[Image: tQxa5c5.png]](https://i.imgur.com/tQxa5c5.png)
Look at how high my scaled SKI and WIL are, GUI isn't even half bad either considering its contributing 3 skill slots, and a class like verglas (Currently taking 12 skill slots)o when paired with Bonder, a rather non-intensive class (taking 9 skill slots), the rest are filled with Martial Artist skills and like 2 summoner skills.
Creating an extra rank of Ice Point, Ice Point Guard and Ice Point Greaves that makes them free skill slots would subtract a few points from my offensives in order to equip more skills, achieving versatility at the cost of some strength overall, it'd also lower verglas down to the same skill slot intensity as bonder in this case.
RE: Skill points vs Skill Slots - Mr.SmileGod - 09-05-2020
The problem I have with raising just a few classes' capabilities skill-slot wise is that more than what you've pointed out require a lot of skill pool slots. Any mage promo with the exception of RM for example, can eat through slots. Any MA promo, not just Verglas. All three of the soldier promos, the list goes on.
You could argue for mage getting +5 from tomes, sure, but so do soldiers because of the shifting tomes. And even WITH that, and a build with 62 scaled skill, will, 25 scaled guile and a tome, my current build is still short more than just a couple slots. It's anecdotal, sure, but the point is that the 5 can end up not being enough. There are a multitude of classes that need this touch-up-- and if your class doesn't eat a lot of slots, you probably won't benefit from the cap raising anyway, because skill is needed to hit, will is needed for elements and weapon scaling (and FP), and gui is needed for crits (generally). You won't want to skimp them just because you don't need the skill slots, generally.
It just seems both easier and less 'this specific build gets buffed' to just... raise the base.
EDIT: And just to throw it in there, this would help account for classes with smaller counts for when they inevitably get extra skills added. Everything eventually gets a pass with 'hey new skills' or a complete rework, and I feel this would help account for that as well.
RE: Skill points vs Skill Slots - Senna - 09-05-2020
The problem I have with this is how abuse-able this will be for some classes. Of course you can fit a lot of skills and so on but this only promotes people to not build Skill any further than they've already not. You can say Skill for autohiters is that neglected step brother. As far as it goes, if Skills is needed, I'd suggest a threshold/bonus once you reach a certain amount of skill?
So let's say each time you hit +15 base skill, you gain an extra 1 slot? So adding around 50 base, you'd have a decent about to work with.
So 15 - bonus 1 extra slot
30 - Another bonus
45 - Another bonus and so on.
That or the easier route: passives and racial being slot-less. Of course this means some passives that has such effect will be affected but normally, classes with that passive always have slot problems.
RE: Skill points vs Skill Slots - Snake - 09-09-2020
I could deadass just brush aside all that was said about Black Knight and focus on Demon Hunter because hoh fuck, that class eats not only skill points but skill slots like a thirsty Onigan in the middle on a trip to Law's End.
Geh.
Also yeah no, the point of this balance issue is making people who invest in SKI/WIL/GUI gain more skill slots as a reward for their investments, not further enable non-SKI autohitting users.
I'd like this idea of adding +1 Skill Slots, but not at the literal point where people would get +1 for free by just investing in APT. The fuck?
Bonus +1 every 25 Scaled is enough.
RE: Skill points vs Skill Slots - Mr.SmileGod - 09-13-2020
I'm fine with tying it to skill, or will. It gives people that sunk a lot of their build into skillslots more leeway, which is nice. I still don't know if it'd solve all the issues some people have with slots vs skills, but it's a step in the right direction. I much prefer that to just sniping down one class, when many of them have the same issue to varying degrees.