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+--- Thread: Katanas in GR2 (/showthread.php?tid=8285)
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Yashatari - 08-24-2021
Personally, As a kensei, Crit damage is dog shit.
It's usable on basics, Wazabane or Raijins lightning crits.
I'd rather get a +1 to its base damage than a 10% crit damage boost, Crit damage only helps lightning types or basic types.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Autumn - 08-24-2021
(08-24-2021, 10:09 PM)Yashatari Wrote: Personally, As a kensei, Crit damage is dog shit.
It's usable on basics, Wazabane or Raijins lightning crits.
I'd rather get a +1 to its base damage than a 10% crit damage boost, Crit damage only helps lightning types or basic types.
Critical Damage applies to most of the base Class' effects like Sidecut and stuff, which basic attacking is still a good half of a Kensei's kit, while SWA is inherently more valuable, critical damage should still matter to a Kensei, especially since the stat associated gives a ton of hit for them to utilize.
Lightning Criticals don't really gain critical damage from weapons or gear pieces, and is only influenced by lightning ATK actually, same with critical rate, but the point is not purely about Kensei either since finesse encompasses more than just Kensei, to re-iterate, Finesse covers 23 weapons, only 9 of those being katanas, 2 of which already having 125% critical damage.
I do not believe that Raijin is too strong in this current scene, I believe that Finesse is not strong enough by comparison to the elemental scalings, but to say extra critical damage is worthless is not entirely correct either.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Yashatari - 08-24-2021
"while SWA is inherently more valuable"
Where did you read SWA? I said the WEAPONS BASE POWER, Not the scaling weapon attack.
"especially since the stat associated gives a ton of hit for them to utilize"
Which stat is this?(Rhetoricle question) Because i don't use flanking or Crit damage.
I use chilvary for my hit and i only crit for the Fluer proc.
"finesse encompasses more than just Kensei, to re-iterate, Finesse covers 23 weapons, only 9 of those being katanas, 2 of which already having 125% critical damage."
Those 125% crit damage weapons, The wa dao and hisen are crit focused swords. Yes, They have more crit damage, But i use the swords that can goto 20 weight for 2handed.
A crit damage boost only benefits a crit heavy playstyle.
A +1 to the base power of the weapon benefits all styles.
I'll add onto this arguement, I'd rather the base accuracy go from 85%->86%
Crit damage is nice, Sure, But not every kensei builds for it. That's a narrowminded way to look at it.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Autumn - 08-24-2021
(08-24-2021, 11:10 PM)Yashatari Wrote: "while SWA is inherently more valuable"
Where did you read SWA? I said the WEAPONS BASE POWER, Not the scaling weapon attack.
Base power adds into SWA so regardless it still applies, Scaled Weapon Attack refers to the total sum of your scaling * 1.5 and the weapon power itself added at the end, increased base power would only increase the likes of Volcanic and/or Rampaging in efficiency really. Raising weapon base power doesn't really do anything different than SWA anyway, you'd have to raise base weapon power by about 5-7 to have the same as 10% more total SWA
The reason I say SWA is more inherently valuable is because for Kensei specifically, they utilize a lot of special attacks, they want high SWA but it only gets up so far, before critical damage starts outscaling it in potential damage output, having 60 STR and 30 GUI is often better than having 80 STR for one such example.
Quote:"especially since the stat associated gives a ton of hit for them to utilize"
Which stat is this?(Rhetoricle question) Because i don't use flanking or Crit damage.
I use chilvary for my hit and i only crit for the Fluer proc.
Well that's great and all, and I also have a kensei who works very similarly, utilizing Chivalry and Sadistic Renewal for high FP Regen on hit, with higher critical rates just for fleur and utility, but that's one build out of the many that are possible. And the bonuses of GUI cannot be denied very easily, especially when flanking's hit bonus ignores the cap, and absolute pace is actually good now and will apply to Wazabane, high critical damage further boosts that up by a ton.
It makes me wish in general a lot of Katana were focused down upon that mix of SWA and Critical damage a lot more than they currently are, because having a weapon class that double dips for it is pretty cool and unique to a lot of other classes in the game I feel.
Quote:"finesse encompasses more than just Kensei, to re-iterate, Finesse covers 23 weapons, only 9 of those being katanas, 2 of which already having 125% critical damage."
Those 125% crit damage weapons, The wa dao and hisen are crit focused swords. Yes, They have more crit damage, But i use the swords that can goto 20 weight for 2handed.
A crit damage boost only benefits a crit heavy playstyle.
A +1 to the base power of the weapon benefits all styles.
I'll add onto this arguement, I'd rather the base accuracy go from 85%->86%
Crit damage is nice, Sure, But not every kensei builds for it. That's a narrowminded way to look at it.
Yes but we're talking about a class of weapons that is being slotted into the role of being a lot more dexterity focused than the other weapons, but simply doesn't deliver at the current moment due to the lesser scaling than elemental scalings, "Cold" is just a better Finesse tag, but instead of bumping up Finesse or individually buffing every finesse weapon in the game to band-aid fix them, why not give them a more unique role?
Band-aid fixing the frustrations that you feel here with +1 power or +1 accuracy hardly changes anything remotely, but I assume these values to be hyperbole to express your distaste for my idea, even though logistically, it makes more sense for a weapon tag that identifies it as being more dexterity based than raw power focused.
It should also be noted that mathematically speaking, if you are attacking even once per turn with 10-15% more critical damage, it will often beat out a minimal power increase, but usually not an equivalent SWA increase.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Yashatari - 08-25-2021
Then raise the Swa or the Base, Or the accuracy, Just not the crit damage. If you want crit damage that badly, Use a dagger. I made this thread complaining about Raijin having 10% more over the other weapons, I gave an example. Im not talking about buffs, Im talking nerfs if you even glanced over the original post. It's not my fault some one really disliked the changes they misread or even misinterpreted my simple complaint.
The other guys already made a proper thread about buffs, Go there with your ideas.
https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=8287
This thread talks about buffing the katanas, While i'm not opposed to a buff, I merely pointed out a glaring issue.
"they want high SWA but it only gets up so far, before critical damage starts outscaling it in potential damage output"
This, Right here. You are thinking way to elitist in a min maxy way. Yes, I agree with the statement, But it doesnt work with every build. This is the kind of narrowmindedness im talking about. If it's a buff, it shouldn't buff one build type, but all of them, What part don't you understand?
All i asked was why raijin has 10% more than every other sword.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Snake - 08-26-2021
lmao what
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Shujin - 08-26-2021
Lolzy didn't even misread you.
I agree with the mainpost though in regards of "Why is Raijin the only one of them behaving that way?". You are right in pointing out that its awkward.
Lolzy is also right however in pointing out that comapred to all other weapons in the game its not Raijin thats the awkward one, but all the other elemental Katana. Which you notice when you look through the test server, you can very clearly see a very clear theme how weapons are tagged and streamlined.
So since all other weapons behave that way, the other elemental Katanas are awkward with the Finese only tag.
It should either be their elemental tag or BOTH. Finese and element. not just finese.
Finese discussion probably is indeed unrelated to the topic as much as I'd like tags to do more than just scaling.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Poruku - 08-28-2021
Raijin has always been a very strong katana, it makes little sense to give it higher scaling here, I agree that it should probably be put to the level of others. Also, somewhat related, but sanjin needs a buff, it has the worst scaling. It's asking you to build 2 damage stats, and you'll need luck to even make use of the guile
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Lolzytripd - 08-28-2021
(08-28-2021, 07:23 PM)Poruku Wrote: Raijin has always been a very strong katana, it makes little sense to give it higher scaling here, I agree that it should probably be put to the level of others. Also, somewhat related, but sanjin needs a buff, it has the worst scaling. It's asking you to build 2 damage stats, and you'll need luck to even make use of the guilethis is a very hyperfocused look at this, you're only looking at it as a katana, and comparing it to katana's
Its an elemental weapon, elemental weapons get -30+40, 50% elemental attack or some other effect, with a few other bonuses.
The better question is why aren't the other Elemental weapon katana's scaling the same
why doesn't yukijin and Sogensara scale like Icebreaker, Ymir or Toyatori.
why doesn't Sanjin scale like buzzing chackram
why doesn't akujin scale like eresh or deadclaw
why doesn't kouenjin scale like Gel'naia or narcus.
Raijin and Tarnada scale exactly how you expect they should in the current system.
RE: Katanas in GR2 - Neus - 09-18-2021
The main reason the katanas were adjusted this way was because it was the most similar to their original scaling - only Raijin was an outlier that actually used LUC.
I don't really have a problem making them in line with other elemental weapon scalings if people were to prefer that instead.