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+--- Thread: Blue potions (/showthread.php?tid=9979)
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RE: Blue potions - Shujin - 02-21-2023
Hm, from my perspective, I also do not think that Blue potions are a problem how they work right now, in all honesty? I would take the opposite approach even. Many of the items we have, are not worth the slot in the long run.
In my opinion, Battle Items and your loadout should have a huge impact on your build, be part of your build. If you can decide to have less FP and compensate with a Blue potion because you think you can handle a few turns of staying more passive, and turn it around for a huge comeback? Then thats pretty cool and sick!
But at the same time, we have other Niche potions that have decent effects, but because of the nature of a single slot use requirement they are less "Efficient" than those that restock form your Equipment.
For Example:
Arcane Potions, each of them take 3-5 M to take for 3-7 rounds (Iirc) per slot. If you entirely made your build around this potion to even have a hint of damage, then you will quickly find yourself out of potion slot for others.
By that logic I too would say: "Its kinda unfair that blue potion has this, because all it really means he has to build less FP pool or doesn't need to worry about other recovery means!" And this example is also just a question of your build, as just building for your weapons from the get go ends up stronger.
And it REALLY sucks when your 4-5 slots of Arcance potions run out in a fight, cause they do not really last THAT long in fights that drag a bit, then we have the very same slog that has been mentioned before in "out of FP!"-boring fights.
Thats the only Logic I would say, what makes it "unfair". But my solution would be to rather improve other item slots, than removing options, so your preparation and item load out feels much more impactful. I obviously do not mean all, some items are really strong and much worth their single slot use, such as healing potions. But situational potions, such a snakebane and so on? Might be worth considering.
TL;DR:
Give us more options to cover our weaknesses, not less.
RE: Blue potions - FaeLenx - 02-21-2023
Blue potions are fine. Inflict interference if you don't want someone to use them.
RE: Blue potions - lalchi - 02-21-2023
I have always seen blue potion as the most inneficient way to regen FP :v
Just the chivalry fp regen traits itself is more efficient and it only regen a max of 5 fp. (iirc)
Blue potion ask you to use 3 momentum for a miserable 20 fp. Which are burned by most of any skills in the game in one use.
That eventually mean if you run out of FP, you are to pay 6 momentum for one skill use that will just do regular damage.
Three momentum potion is already a HUGE cost. And usually not worth in case of blue potion.
As said before, players rarely use them cause passive regen are just much more worth.
Heck, we have absorb power, which regen 50 fp for three rounds, so for a max of 150 fp for 3 momentum cost.
Blue potion, are to my point, just a waste of momentum and therefore ain't worth it AT ALL. I'd use them only in the most dire situation, and i'd probably die still.
I guess with the traits investisment they are more worth. But EH...
RE: Blue potions - renowner - 02-22-2023
its 45 fp. Anyone using blue potions spends 3 talent points for the perfect talent, and then they're 45 fp. More than any other move directly gives except Absorb power, as far as I remember.
RE: Blue potions - Shujin - 02-22-2023
I most certainly wouldn't say blue potions are weak, even if you are for some reason deciding to not get prefect (why wouldn't you?). 40FP a round is fairly decent for something that you can just slot and combine with every class/race combination. Saying they are inefficient, is just ingenuine in my opinion. And yes its 45fp per potion with prefect, 45fp per 3 M is really really good, better than most classes recovery options, that usually are tied to combos or resources such as Absorb Veil or I forgot the cobra ones name descending serpent?
If they were no one would use them. the fact that they restore alot rather quickly and are so versatile and flexible in your choices while also being easy to get is why they are not only considered but almost standard in everyone's Item Loadout. My argument is just that I rather see more different options with similar efficiency and uses for the well-prepared, rather than cut down on the few that are actually really nice to have. I think Items could add a cool additional layer of strategy if we just let them.
RE: Blue potions - renowner - 02-22-2023
Even absorb veil is weaker. Even if you have the passives to halve costs and have maxed void energy, that's 60, then 30, while hurting yourself.
90 fp.
2 blue potions is 90 fp for the same momentum cost.
If you guys are so against blue potions being finite, then i'd agree its only fair to have a lot more item bag items to also be infinite.
RE: Blue potions - Autumn - 02-23-2023
(02-22-2023, 10:39 PM)renowner Wrote: Even absorb veil is weaker. Even if you have the passives to halve costs and have maxed void energy, that's 60, then 30, while hurting yourself.
90 fp.
2 blue potions is 90 fp for the same momentum cost.
If you guys are so against blue potions being finite, then i'd agree its only fair to have a lot more item bag items to also be infinite.
Finite item slots was made to combat infinite usage sal volatile/hi potion/PR Hi potions, a lot of items could use infinite item slots, conversely I also mentioned in my post as well that you may need to convince people of a better solution to this issue that you are proposing, because I do believe that there is a point having such easy access to FP in a pinch could be seen as being against careful resource management amongst classes and even serve to make classes like Verglas more powerful simply on the merit of not having to need to rely on Evoker or Grand Summoner to do it's usual thing in PvE content.
Originally I was not going to post any suggestions in the thread to add to the dumpster fire spam of Balance Fu posts anyway (Over 60 posts TODAY) and just simply point out some of the issues in the original post you described. By your description you want these items to be nerfed in such a way that drives them completely out of usage, which the SL2 community has had a lot of experience with lately and is usually against, why make a very large Quality of Life battle item useless by comparison when you can do something different? Rework it in a way that would make both parties happy.
Firstly, you need to identify what the frustration with Blue Potion is, which you have already, its the seemingly infinite FP that someone can pump out in a pinch if needed be, you yourself have also expressed that this isn't an issue you have run into, its not a very common one, and even when you do its often a losing situation anyway due to the momentum issues. The inverse can be said about people relying on blue potions.
Needing to get to the point where Blue Potions have become relevant is often already a losing battle, you will not win against your opponent if you're spending 1 turn recharging FP and then 1 turn fighting until you're empty again, this is the balancing factor behind blue potion and is the reason why it's fair at the current moment despite its usage.
we have already established that simply bumping up the numbers on blue potion is not a great idea either, as you would be decreasing a lot of the momentum costs of huge bursts of FP Healing. Burst being a key word here.
What is the balancing factor behind a massive FP passive such as Absorb Power? Its that you don't get all the FP at once, you can make blue potion finite if it restores more FP, so have it restore 20 (45 with talent) FP up front, and then grant a beneficial status that bumps up your FP Regen by say...40 for 3 rounds, this would make a single blue potion roughly 4x it's value but the pay off is no longer immediate.
RE: Blue potions - renowner - 02-23-2023
I have, did (Until I got mared jorg), and would continue to use blue potions if they were finite. Items to use in a pinch if you really messed up, or if your opponent is for some reason trying to drain your FP in this day and age of easy access to infinite FP sustain. Which exactly equal descending oroboros' 45 fp heal,[without requiring aerial] and is already as good as any of the class restores except the main class only absorb power.
45 fp is still immediate in what you describe, and then just becomes better than absorb power, which is an evoker main class only skill. And just completely outclasses Mared Jorg, the only other fp regen over time skill that exists as far as I know. Then again, the other mared healing spells are weaker than most healing spells too, so maybe that's fine.
Simply making it 'finite' for that isn't enough. It would also need to give potion sickness, like high potions, which roughly equate to a healing skill when used. Are finite, and give potion sickness. What's the point of using any of the class fp regeneration options when they're all just equal to or worse than blue potions, that are cheap, plentiful, and only take one item slot for infinite usage?
You can make multiple sizes of blue potions, that take more momentum for larger fp cost heals. As having infinite blue potions with 0 cooldowns and potion sickness applied to them also means that you can just hey, 6m 90 fp or 3m 45 fp whenever you want, making it even more thoughtless and able to be weaved into any turn for only one item slot than any other item can.
All the other size based potions are finite and less useful and also require you to figure out what size you're going to use in that item slot beforehand. Maybe that can be changed too if blue potion retains all of these things.
Not sure what you mean by 'decreasing the momentum costs of huge bursts of fp healing.' Blue potions as they currently are already completely outclass all fp healing in the game that isn't exactly absorb power, and maybe mared jorg. Things that take multiple turns.
Pray, Meditate, they're all 6m and such and heal less overall than two blue potions.
RE: Blue potions - firehawk11 - 03-10-2023
If Blue Potions were finite they would need a rather larger buff in my opinion then base 20 FP Not including the talent but if we include the talent, in the end nothing should really be balanced off talents and talents should purely be a bonus.
RE: Blue potions - Snake - 03-10-2023
I think we all have already reached a consensus that this does not need to be changed.