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+--- Thread: Self Confusion (/showthread.php?tid=10274)
RE: Self Confusion - renowner - 06-02-2023
It makes it a worse experience for everyone if people playing villains always get a fair fight. And vice-versa, actually. There's two sides to every coin. Moderation and fairness are best on case by case basis.
RE: Self Confusion - FaeLenx - 06-02-2023
How is it a worse experience for everyone if everyone gets a fair fight?
RE: Self Confusion - Shujin - 06-02-2023
Local friend of yours gets attacked by generic PVP goon!, you see that but want to help, but Oh no! That wouldn't be a fair fight!
proceed watching that person defeat your friend, heal from food, now you step in!...But you also lose!
now you both die. GG.
PVP goon storms Geladyne, proceeds to Duel everyone present and wins cause has a crack duel set up, that would crumble in teamfights.
I think most people would absolutely hate that. Find unrealistic and horrible for RP.
Fairness is good on paper, untill you see the flaws of it. However if you are a good RPer and person OOCly, you usually make it fair for others. But there are those nut cases you probably wouldn't want to happen.
RE: Self Confusion - Autumn - 06-02-2023
Listen, I think there is considering unfairness from a narrative standpoint, and then there is doing something that is unexpected and genuinely can ruin the experience of everyone involved. We all work together here to achieve something satisfying narratively.
RE: Self Confusion - Skullcatrons - 06-04-2023
Just allow you to hit your own confused teammate if they're griefing.
Or allow us to cleanse confusion debuffs more reliably.
But at same time, confusion is useful tool in PVP to stop people from healing their buddies. Or dropping AOEs like madman.
RE: Self Confusion - renowner - 06-04-2023
(06-04-2023, 06:26 PM)Skullcatrons Wrote: Just allow you to hit your own confused teammate if they're griefing.Confusion inflicted by enemies is one thing, confusion inflicted by yourself is where shit gets dumb.
Or allow us to cleanse confusion debuffs more reliably.
But at same time, confusion is useful tool in PVP to stop people from healing their buddies. Or dropping AOEs like madman.
RE: Self Confusion - FaeLenx - 06-05-2023
(06-02-2023, 09:07 PM)Shujin Wrote: Local friend of yours gets attacked by generic PVP goon!, you see that but want to help, but Oh no! That wouldn't be a fair fight!
proceed watching that person defeat your friend, heal from food, now you step in!...But you also lose!
now you both die. GG.
PVP goon storms Geladyne, proceeds to Duel everyone present and wins cause has a crack duel set up, that would crumble in teamfights.
I think most people would absolutely hate that. Find unrealistic and horrible for RP.
Fairness is good on paper, untill you see the flaws of it. However if you are a good RPer and person OOCly, you usually make it fair for others. But there are those nut cases you probably wouldn't want to happen.
There are a lot of examples of other roleplay environments that tackled this issue with one of many rather easy to implement rules.
- Free flee for any party that might be outnumbered in mechanical combat. Let's say 4 people go to jump on one person. They have to choose between either dueling or just not being able to attack that person. This would make anyone trying to storm Geladyne generally just have to run away over and over.
- Fights must be mechanically fair on the aggressor's side. There's simply a hard stop against an aggressor going up to any group with more numbers with the intent to gank, but people standing around can defend their friends that are there at the time of the standing around. This would stop people from running up to groups and singling them out. Obviously that wouldn't be intentionally wanted.
- Mechanical incentive. Outnumbered parties in duels get more momentum and DR by the game's own code. Probably not enough to make it statistically as strong as 2+ people, but it would dissuade gank groups.
- Disallow reinforcements that would outnumber an enemy. Allow reinforcements regardless of any scene lock that would even a battle. The least restrictive option, really. If someone has friends but they're just not around and you wanted to snipe them out with numbers, maybe you should rethink that.
To say 'this wouldn't work because one very specific thing could happen that doesn't sound great!' is just disingenuous. You can work around those circumstances with an overarching ruleset. You don't need to simply accept that this game is weirdly worse with conflict than any other roleplay environment because it's not focused on it and therefore it doesn't have any framework or rules to facilitate it in a way that's healthy. Any of the rules above would facilitate things better. There's also the biggest fact that pretty much most of this game requires consent to do with other characters. You're never gonna get far if your character's only motive and goal is to shit up into a town and leave after beating someone in PVP because none of your victims will really reflect what you want in the way you want it. Most of the people who achieve anything around here manage it by being someone that someone WANTS to make a story with. So all these rules would do is guide people into doing something that is legitimately more fun and engaging. Fair fights are just better.
RE: Self Confusion - Shujin - 06-05-2023
Man, I was just talking about Self-confusion and that not being easy to implement in the current system.
What you suggest is revamping the whole game system and rule system we have, I think that's a bit off-topic for a Selfconfusion Balance Fu.
You are however correct that its possible.
RE: Self Confusion - FaeLenx - 06-05-2023
I find the problem with self confusion stems from the problems around conflict. I don't think self confusion needs any balance changes. I believe that the method that it's supposedly been used is a problem in how conflict is seen and ruled on this game in general.
Self-confusion itself is good for a few good memes. I don't really see it needing a change as long as people aren't using it to try to grief in the absence of actual rules about how you're supposed to fight.
RE: Self Confusion - Shujin - 06-05-2023
While I agree, in essence with what you are saying, I am of the mind that whatever you can prevent from even coming up, by simply letting the system not allow it rather than having a "Faith-based Rule set", is better than a rule. ten out of ten times.
Rules need admins to enforce them, which might not be always available. Not to mention all the other headaches that come with it.
Rules are nice, but a system is always in place.