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+--- Thread: In Regard To The Recent Announcement (/showthread.php?tid=11325)
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Vanilla - 07-21-2024
Firstly, it has literally never been the case that mutes have a log, and you're only raising it now that marginalised ppl are under fire and those doing it may be muted.
Secondly, literally noone is saying anyone can mock anyone. It was specifically bigotry that was happening, so that's what was addressed. If you think someone saying "plz stop being misogynistic and anti-lgbtq" is in any way implying you can harass or go after other types of ppl, that's on you, it's not a rational conclusion and is honestly just a massive self-report.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Soul_Hacker - 07-21-2024
think the uh. general gist of it was that, specifically, there were cases of 'edgy/dark criticisms' of women that made folks uncomfortable.
hence that being singled out in the announcement to not. ykno. do that.
i think 'dont harass anyone' is pretty clear regardless. the specific situations that the announcement was concerning were specifically about women and lgbtq+ folk. hence them being mentioned.
not as a slight towards 'the other side'
whatever the other side of criticizing women is.
should've watched more sonic sez growing up
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - CuteRedCrab - 07-21-2024
I'll be honest, it's disheartening to hear that people have this little faith in the GM team. We pour a lot of time into making sure that the community is safe, and this announcement was a measure we had to take, with how frequent and comfortable people have become with making certain remarks against minorities and women.
If people cannot see the good intentions behind our actions and focus on the made up scenario of how we're going to start muting for no reason?
I don't know how to feel about that.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - MegaBlues - 07-21-2024
Homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, racism, ableism, and all of the other -isms and hate of any kind don't deserve a platform.
I started typing out how I understand that GMs might start using this to punish something, but found that I couldn't reasonably finish that sentence in a way that made sense. Punishing edgy jokes? Punishing . . . Things you probably shouldn't be saying in a public forum? I think people (myself included, at times) get too comfortable saying things online that they never would in person, forgetting that there are other humans behind the screen. Not to mention that historically, the team has been overly lax in enforcing the rules, and players tend not to report whenever they're the victim of said behavior. People tend to get away with bad behavior for months until resentment builds, explodes, and sets the player-base on fire.
What I'm really wondering is what prompted the announcement in the first place. I know I'm terrible at keeping up with the goings-on of the community and I get a nice little shock at just how bad things can get every time #gm-ban-log lights up, but was there really rampant hate speech while I wasn't looking?
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Balor - 07-21-2024
There are critiques of the community I can understand and endorse. There are lines in the sand in regards to accountability and transparency that should be upheld. But in all my time here I have never had the pleasure of reading a line so loaded.
"What does criticism of Women mean?"
What does muting the opposite side mean? Are we muting Women?
You chose to request that Mutes should be posted into the GM Ban Log? Cool, that's reasonable. If you opened your post with that, I'd be able to understand and empathize with the request.
So why would you open with the opener you did? What tactic did this spawn from? Were you reading the history books and decided that Alexander's false center would operate well on a forum post? You've certainly invited in the opposition, but what companion cavalry did you intend to outflank and surround them with? What hand did you intend to play?
No I understand now, I read you fully. If you are called out for being a bigot, you'll just disengage and admit you're stupid as though that's a viable defense. But allow me to offer you some advice I was given by my wife, a Woman mind you. Which would reveal the reality that I am in fact the other side, I am the "Woman Lover." and therefore I should also be muted.
If you feel strongly about something, sometimes you should keep your mouth shut about it.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - KhalidtheGrey - 07-21-2024
Best I can tell, the intent of this thread seems to be aimed at making the announcement more 'proper'. Responsible wording is a good habit with edicts. Pretty sure no one here is in favor of actual hate that's actually going on. I'd like to think so at least.
While the original post may be somewhat rough (hardly a shocker, given we're not doing this professionally), these attacks and malicious assumptions aren't helping either, and the original announcement reads more like a new rule rather than a reminder of existing rules and expectations.
As a stab at a more refined take, let me put my PR hat on...
"In light of the content of some of the humor lately proving to be distasteful to a number of our community members, we would like to remind everyone to please be respectful of one another and try to be mindful of the sort of humor you're using. Jokes at the expense of a demographic aren't welcome here, whether malicious or not, as it's too easy for that sort of thing to be uncomfortable for those not directly involved, which is many people."
Is something like that more agreeable of a design? I think it's the same sentiment as the original announcement.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 10:00 AM)matthewmwps Wrote: This is clearly bait. Like I can't possibly see this as anything but. This acts like mutes are going to happen constantly now or something.
This comes off as 'I want to know what gms mute my friends so I can attack them'.
But if you think a mute is so unfair then have the person use modmail. Otherwise, it's not that deep.
No, this isn't bait. I will confirm that.
Apologies if this came off in that way. I'm not exactly an expert public speaker. I just voiced out my concerns.
Modmail is run by GMs themselves. While I would like to have good faith in them. Sadly, I prefer clarity where it can be provided.
I would also like to note that I am biased against GMs. I know this, and I probably should've stated this, but I prefer authorities be clear. Because, at the end of the day, they do have power. Power that, I feel like pointing out, isn't checked.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - JamOfBoy - 07-21-2024
Here's a secret - admins speak in a different language. A big announcement like this where they say they're gonna crack down on a particular offense? What it really means is that they've been lenient and it hasn't stopped. The admins were kind enough this time to provide a nice announcement clearly outlining what they're going to be punishing harder. Since, you know, that's what the problem is. So that, specifically, is what they're going to be focusing on. You get me?
Yes, certain demographics were mentioned in the announcement, and many more were not. When the demographics not mentioned in the announcement receive the same harassment and "humour" that was displayed in general chat, and there is a lack of response to it, you will be all justified in your belief that the announcement here is unfair.
However, that isn't what happened, and it isn't what will happen.
This isn't political. This isn't sexist or unfair. It isn't even unclear. The same rules apply to all - when you are harassed or unfairly treated, the GMs will step in-- this has been written down in the server and known to all through mere common sense for a long, long time.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Kotaro - 07-21-2024
Accountability for what? Stating an active issue within the community that they've been made increasingly aware of is not acceptable. Offering the warning to stop the behavior and the consequences that follows.
This is a discord community server. You know, a community server. A place where everyone should be able to feel welcomed in. A moderator or admin offering the announcement they did is clarity enough that things are going to far. There's a little bit of common sense when it comes too, you know looking down on others no matter the context of dark humor or whatever. Jokes and whatever are to make people laugh, not to be looked down upon with.
And dude, really. None of this had anything to do with politics. Treat people with a bit of respect no matter what race, background, gender, sexuality.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 10:01 AM)Maya Wrote: If people truly had an issue with GMs being able to mute people in the server 'without consenquence' or without people being able to see it, then this post would have strictly mentioned so, and perhaps even a discussion could be opened about it amongst ourselves.
But that isn't what this is about at all, and it shows in your responses. I really think you've completly missed the intent of the announcement.
You're frustration over the GMs ability to mute people in a discord when we're already capable of kicking people, banning people, as well as mute people in the past makes little sense to me. The intent of GMs is to handle these issues at a quick pace, coming to a decision with the approval of a people with distinct opinions on various issues. There's never been a need for approval from the community.
I'm honestly getting quite frustrated with the idea that we've become GMs for the sake of some power trip, doing things because we can or because we don't like people. Trust me when I say most of us are burnt out, tired, exhausted from the criticism that comes from our actions. There's no power trip to be had, no fun to be sought in 'doing things without consenquence'. We became GMs because we want to make the community a better place, and quite frankly, its posts like this that make it needlessly tedious, taking arguments as useless and tiresomely comparable to that of 'All lives matter' over 'Black lives matter'.
You know full well what we mean by 'criticism of women'. And if you don't quite frankly, it is not my job to educate you.
Being a decent human being is not a 'side', and this might be one of the biggest self reports I've ever read.
That is true. I did tunnel vision on the muting aspect of this all. But I do understand the point of the announcement. Like I said many, I'm not against it. I'm not even trying to recede it. My words may be prickly. But I genuinely want these rules, because they are new rules, to be expanded upon in a more general way.
I focused a bit on the politics of it due to the many responses critiquing the politics while largely ignoring my entire starting statement. I understand this is likely exhausting work. But all your efforts are being acknowledged. This thread proves it with how many people are disagreeing with me over it.
But just because you want to make this community a better place doesn't mean you can't make mistakes while doing so. The process of making this community a better place entails endless criticism alongside endless understanding and love. I'm sorry if this post frustrated you. But, unfortunately, I do like this community, too. So, I'll offer my criticisms. Which are sometimes invalid, but like yours, they should be critiqued.
To the whole 'criticism of women' part. I would like to mention, yes, it is your obligation to educate people about vague rules like this. Because at the end of the day, this means nothing worthwhile grammatically. It's implications vile without a context to give it morality. I, frankly, should not be telling you not everyone is on the same page.
Also, I have stated several times I'm not saying so. I have gotten over indulged in politics in this thread. But at the end of the day, I want the announcement to be better written and explained.
(07-21-2024, 10:03 AM)zericosmic Wrote: > The Announcement itself only directed its attention to one side of political `jokes` and such
No one mentioned any political side.
If you do wish to attribute comments that are derogatory and bigoted towards members of our community to general right wing politics that's on you.
Harassing members of of the community or making bigoted comments towards them (which is the same thing) will be punished, I do not care how politically you align your argument.
If people hinge their personal values upon being able to disregard common decency, then they should perhaps rethink them.
It was implied, like I've said. But I appreciate the simply honesty.
However, like I said, I'm not against the Announcement. I just wished it was more general to avoid minor slips by those who wish to leap loopholes while also being clear.