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+--- Thread: [Races] Racial Equality (/showthread.php?tid=159)
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Daisuke - 11-19-2014
Except spending your 300-400 hp doing nothing but normal attacks so you can make use of a passive that's only going to give you half your FP back as HP, which for most melee classes will be around 100 hp, is completely not worth the effort. That skill that has 12 more damage is most likely an autohit, something with more hit chance, extra crit, ignores def and factors in res instead, a silence, a gap closer, or a knockdown. Etc. Other times you're telling a BK not to use steel mind so he can make use of his racial even though he's charmed. That's taking "be conservative with your fp" to an extreme. It shouldn't be "you use 1 spell and this is gone if you don't have any way of restoring FP so just move and attack until you die".
And it's only effective as a second life if you have a lot of FP in general and if you do have a lot of FP, you're most likely a mage and you need to spend FP in order to do anything.
It can turn a fight around if it had a reasonable activation requirement so I agree it should have a drawback and make you play a little conservative with your FP if you plan on using it but as it is now, it's completely not worth trying to use unless you can naturally make use of it (like MGs) since the current "drawback" is too much.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Lolzytripd - 11-19-2014
what if it just always triggered but used half of current fp instead of max fp....
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Ranylyn - 11-19-2014
Completely missing one critical point: Phenex is tied for the highest skill growth in the game. Go figure, with Zerans, as well as Tannites/ Raid Mechs.
Spirit Hunter + Parting shot + Normal attack = Battle Spirits completely covering the parting shot, + very high damage output.
Alternatively, due to their high skill, they also make incredible Kensei/Monk characters; high crit, healing based on skill, and wonderful FP management.
From the Ashes should not activate at a much lower threshold, factoring these examples in. You used BK as an example. BKs have NO FP managment. Of course a BK won't get any use from it. That's like saying a melee Umbral should get full benefits from Noctis Arcana, which is clearly aimed at mages since it affects the FP costs of SPELLS. It simply doesn't work that way. Many racials are geared more towards some classes. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Daisuke - 11-19-2014
So because they have high skill growth, only a gunner should effectively make use of it is what you're saying because I already know gunners have a good time making use of it. That's only 1 class out of the many other classes.
Even monks have a hard time keeping their FP up to 90-100% because power up only gives 16 FP and costs 6 momentum. The only ability that has less FP than that is meditate. Kensei has it easier because they're only there for the passives.
And yes, BKs have no FP management, that's why I used them as an example. Neither does Ghost, Arbalest, Engi, Verglas, Evoker, and Lantern Bearer. They have 0 way of using this skill aside from walking and normal attacking until they die just so they can get a decent bit of health that's most likely not even half their HP unless they're a mage.
Racials are geared towards certain classes(plural) but they aren't geared towards a specific trait and a specific promo. Lich passive is good for ALL mage classes. Elves are good for ALL healer classes. Umbrals are good for ALL spellcasters. Do you really think Phenex is supposed to be geared to battle spirits and vampiric shell? They also tie in with their lore too and make sense. Last I checked, Lich was a being of arcane energy which explains their FP, Hyattrs had huge lifespan and their patron deity was a massive dragon which explains their Vit, Redtails are known for being extremely lucky, etc. There's nothing implying that Phenex know their way around guns. Instead they have faith growth and they also happen to have really balanced stats which make them suitable for almost any class.
It really seems like you're hugely overestimating the Phenex passive as if it's some forbidden racial that shouldn't be touched.
It's not as good as you're making it out to be and doesn't need this crippling requirement.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Ranylyn - 11-19-2014
I'm actually getting ready to go to bed, (been insomniac, almost 11 AM here. Running on very empty) so I don't have time to address every single point. I'm just going to single the elf one out since it was one of your first examples.
- Elves are not good for all healer classes. Phoenix is notorious for not applying Healer's Legacy, unless this was ever changed. This leaves their best healing option as Graft. I never actually tested if Healer's Legacy applies to Meditate/Aid, because my elf is canonically dead.
- Phenex -are- good for (almost - not all that much with VA unless their will is high or fighting against magic) -any- class with FP management; for example summoners can be used for a more supplementary role. They can easily install and use low level youkai skill effects (Level 1 Ruby beam can still blind, for example) without draining their FP beyond what they regen per turn, and without any youkai summoned. This allows them to put their faith stat to use in acquiring more youkai for install/evoke options. It just takes a little adapting of the playstyle, it's not strictly gimping yourself.
You may wonder why I'm still arguing this: Simple. If the threshold was changed to 60% as proposed, and it eats 50% of your max FP upon activation... don't you see how a class with major FP management ability could game that to basically be immortal? 100% to 50% would leave you only 10% away from 60%. I'm arguing against making it easier to use so this can't be maliciously exploited to the point that the racial needs to be completely reworked to just be something like only a percentage chance, or perhaps draining ALL FP, in which case you may as well just be dead anyways!. As it is, several class combos, almost all of which have high skill which, go figure, is the main stat the Phenex excels at (they can't use faith as a damage stat) can game the existing effect quite well.
This boldened part is really all I should have said in the first place. Everything else is just fluff.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Lolzytripd - 11-19-2014
how about phenex passive when defeated, revive with 50% of your current fp as hp at the next round
also after reviving 2-4 turn cooldown on the revive....
or we could just go the anivia method and make defeating a phenex drop an egg that is attackable, that hatches them the next round at some amount of hp if you don't blow the egg up with some sort of extravagant 10 turn+ persistent through battles cooldown, could even be daily.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Ranylyn - 11-19-2014
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=758#p758 Wrote:Lolzytripd ยป Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:11 am[/url]"]how about phenex passive when defeated, revive with 50% of your current fp as hp at the next round
Because then a solo phenex loses. It needs to be an immediate effect or a solo phenex effectively doesn't have it. Because hey, that means everyone is dead, battle's over.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Rendar - 11-19-2014
I kind of like what you did with the humans being crafters, albeit all of those combined might be a tad OP.
Anyways.
LICH STUFF
Lich:
Arcane Order: The stability that defines the ritual that creates a Lich. At high amounts of Focus, this pact is at its strongest, nullifying the chance of divine intervention. When at 50% FP or higher, the Lich cannot critically, nor can they be critically hit.
Dissipate: Upon destruction of the physical body of the Lich, the arcane energy that actually comprises the Lich returns to the phylactery. Liches will often enchant their belongings to return along with it, greatly reducing the chance that items will be dropped upon defeat in battle.
Magia Detremus: As they are beings mostly comprised of arcane energy, the vessel of the Lich has an almost limitless supply of Focus to draw upon, although it is limited still by time. Increases your maximum FP by 50% (after all modifications), but your maximum HP is reduced by 50% (after all modifications), due to the fragility of the vessel.
New Stuff
Arcane Shield: Being able to dominate focus so easily to even be a living embodiment of it, you're able to strain yourself a bit to erect a barrier around your person. While it does harden and make a shield to protect yourself, it does make you a tad slower (-25 Evade). However, in doing so you lose 50% of your current FP to erect a BARRIER with LVL equal to FP lost for 10 rounds < Cannot be Null-shelled >. When doing this, any damage you take is sent to the barrier, reducing its level by damage taken*1.5. This skill cannot be used unless you are at 75%+ FP. This skill takes 1 M, or possibly a toggle for doing it at the start of a fight.
Example: You start a fight with 600 FP, 150 HP. You spend 300 FP to create a barrier. You're now at 300/600 FP, and essentially gain 200 HP. Putting you at a decent 350 HP < Essentially > and 300 FP.
Putting you on par with most, if not all mages that have decent HP/FP. Makes Liches more survivable in PVP and PVE while also letting them, essentially, be a normal player capable of being crit and all that jazz.
Focus Weave: Being made of pure focus energy, a lich is great at sensing it and are excellent enchanters, on par with Zerans. Due to being able to see the weave around them easily, they gain +1 Craft Rank whenever they are Enchanting.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - LadyLightning - 11-19-2014
Lich with 600 FP spends 300 to erect a barrier. Wins in 2 turns without being hit. Loses 300 FP for 0 benefit.
^ this is a problem.
I would also put in a stipulation that, should a battle end and the Lich still has the Barrier status, he gains
back FP equal to the Barrier's LV. Otherwise, the barrier would need to persist through battles and have an
infinite duration, causing it to last forever or until destroyed by taking enough damage. Also, multiple
castings of Arcane Shield should refresh the LV to the FP spent, and ~not~ stack.
Re: [Races] Racial Equality - Rendar - 11-19-2014
That seems like a fair thing, LL. Having FP restored at the end of the fight based on how much is left over < or just have the barrier carrying over > seems legit enough.