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+--- Thread: Too fast offense (/showthread.php?tid=4532)
Re: Too fast offense - Neus - 05-10-2017
I could see Bonded Youkai having a maximum of 7M instead of 6 but again, this skill has been in the game forever without anyone caring enough to make a complaint until now. I don't think it needs a huge overhaul or nerf.
Re: Too fast offense - Soapy - 05-10-2017
Swords. Guns. Magic. Youkai. Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony.
Then, everything changed when the Great Reckoning attacked.
As of GR, Youkai deal obscene amounts of damage but are easy to take down, which is why a skill that allows one to drop down and throw out a 4-5 attack combo is suddenly a huge problem.
Arbitrarily limiting it based on the spirit isn't the solution, as being able to ignore Bonder's entire gimmick for greater benefit is the only issue with the skill itself.
The actual problem is that youkai deal too much damage now, which has so far been 'balanced' by how easy it is to remove them before they can do much harm - and that's been thrown out the window since they get two turns when they're summoned.
Re: Too fast offense - Selfish Gene - 05-10-2017
I agree with Soapy in regards to Fast Offense not being the problem but more so how strong the Youkai actually are. The entire problem that comes from Fast Offense isn't the skill itself, but the sheer amount of damage the Youkai can deal as a result of it all. Throughout this post, a few things along the lines of "They're so squishy that they explode within a turn" has been thrown around to justify their damage output... But that isn't necessarily the case. Of course, it would be easy for an Evoker who has already prepared Charge Mind to rid themselves of the Youkai or any class with massive AoE's provided, but that isn't every class. As such, the idea of trying to kill 3 Youkai who appeared suddenly and brought you down to red as say an Arbalest is far too daunting compared to others.
As someone who has a Bonder/Summoner, I understand that we're, to a degree, "entitled" to having these Youkai be very strong to commend us for the amount of work we've put into them (14 hours of solid grinding for 3 Bonded Youkai to level 60 and whatnot), but that doesn't justify Youkai bursting people for 130-200 damage per skill. As Soapy has said beforehand, I'd be happy with the damage being toned down and the Youkai themselves being a bit tankier.
Edit: Also, about the whole "No one's ever complained about it before" bit... I think that's more so people trying to cope with it for as long as they did but imminently getting fed up with it and expressing their opinion.
Re: Too fast offense - Raigen.Convict - 05-11-2017
I truly believe it'd be best if each youkai type had a niche with its stats. Dragons are tanks but deal moderate-low damage, Fairies are high damage but very low survivability, save for Asrai, but I feel like the hp it gets should get nerfed. Night youkai are overall average stats geared towards being mages with the exception of Lilu who gets high Luck, moderate skill, moderate strength for critical striking and inflicting its charm. Mystic is varied dependant on youkai, Phase Python staying very high cel with good skill and luck scale but moderate-low strength and low defensive stats. Carbuncle is geared towards magic but low hp, Terrasque is moderate hp with decent strength and spell power but moderate celerity and no luck scaling. Sazae-Oni would be high skill, moderate strength, moderate spell scaling and low defenses. Plant race would be hp oriented but not much else going for them. Beast would general be great for basic attacking but their skills deal lower damage. And finally Avian would be similar to fairies.
Though, this would also warrant fast offense only allowing Bonded youkai to gain the full advantage.
Re: Too fast offense - Selfish Gene - 05-11-2017
I'm glad to see you pitching in your two cents on the matter, Raigen. You're probably the longest standing summoner in the game and it's always nice to hear experienced people giving their opinions on topics they're very familiar with. I agree wholeheartedly with that as well, I remember the entire reason Youkai were at a decent position pre-reckoning was because of the RNG leveling. They had their own designated stats and grew along with what their base strengths were. Was it frustrating to have said Youkai get shitty stats because RNG leveling was horrible? Yes, but it made them fairer and not horrific to fight against. So I couldn't agree more with having Youkai focus primarily on those stats. I'm well aware that the current way they work is similar to that, as shown by their stat growths as you get them to the higher levels, but their skill scalings are all pretty atrocious for the most part. The dragons and fairies are probably the most sought after Youkai due to the dragons' high survivability and damage output and the fairies deal massive damage, whether it be from a range (Izabe, looking at you sniper fairy) or up close with dreadful side-effects (Wawa with her blinds and charms).
And I agree again, having Bonder's strength highlight the importance of Bonded Youkai should make Fast Offense limited to them.
Re: Too fast offense - Raigen.Convict - 05-22-2017
I had a thought from my last post just now, probably makes no difference but, what if also with Lilu specifically enemies it has charmed she gains critical and hit v.s.? Maybe that'd make it worth using? Plus if the suggestion I had for mages to pass Elemental Augment this'd make a nice combo, that isn't entirely broken, but can be viable.