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+--- Thread: Engagement (/showthread.php?tid=4584)
Re: Engagement - Autumn - 05-28-2017
It would do better as a black knight/soldier skill, as Cat15 has brought up, as I don't think kiting is much of an issue to anyone at all, not even boxers or black knights very often.
And only serve to create really weird scenarios in where playing an arbalest or gunner would be really hard to do suddenly.
Perhaps this could be brought into play as a black knight skill, such as like the Chessboard from SL1?
Either way, my point still stands, I'm concerned with what the change would bring for the most part, as a whole mechanic itself.
Re: Engagement - Neus - 05-28-2017
I think you're making it more complicated of an issue than it has to be. Curses could easily just not transfer on AoO. Pacifist Boon could prevent it from firing.
Re: Engagement - Snake - 05-28-2017
AoO should have 100% chance to hit too, while we're at it. Or atleast a pretty high hit buff to make it fair against Rogues who need to be constantly running behind the target. Or better! Make Soldiers gain this hit buff, and rogue to ignore the hit buff, each by their own means. (If Watchful Eye is equipped, if Evasion is equipped.)
Maybe work a bit limited with ranged weapons, so some tomes (whips) can benefit from it? Maybe Shortbows (crossbows in the future?) could be used for this too? Or small firearms (handgun/shotgun)?
Re: Engagement - Cat15 - 05-28-2017
Other potential issues could arise from things such as elemental absorb, damage retaliation, and effects that proc upon being hit. A Red Letter user could force a Narcus user to heal them, a Brightray Bulwark user could force a Kirosh user to kill themselves attacking them, a Haunted Armor user could force someone to hit them to inflict fear. These are just a few situations out of very many potential unforeseen ones.
About half of the current promoted classes have abilities that make Movement unnecessary in most-to-all situations. In a two-class system, this means that only a handful of viable class combinations won't be able to ignore this system at the cost of a very small amount of FP for no extra Momentum. As such, it seems like this system could far more easily be used to the benefit of those being attacked than the attacker, at least in PvP. Furthermore, this would be an accidental nerf to the minority of class combinations that actually don't have an alternative to Movement, especially if the AoO was a super hit which is unavoidable and ignores defensive effects to mitigate the previously mentioned issues.
On a different note, I also dislike this for the potential negative effects on roleplay. There are IC reasons why one may decide to not attack within a fight. Perhaps the character is refusing to fight back, or has ICly surrendered. Or got unwillingly caught up in a fight in the middle of town or at the arena and is deliberately avoiding any violent action so they don't get arrested by the guards. This could potentially be used to godmod the actions of others in such a situation, since stabbing someone is difficult to ICly explain as something non-violent. "Sorry, Mr. Guard. I tried to avoid the violence, but when he surrendered to you and moved away from me like you ordered, stabbing him in the back was just reflexive."
All of this is, of course, is fairly easy to mitigate if it's a toggle ability.
Re: Engagement - Snake - 05-28-2017
Cat, this can always just be a new future trait too, you know.
Re: Engagement - Cat15 - 05-28-2017
Snake, I suggested making it one in my first reply. I'm arguing against it being an automatic free thing which can't be turned off.
Re: Engagement - Nanovelich - 05-28-2017
"Cat15" Wrote:"Sorry, Mr. Guard. I tried to avoid the violence, but when he surrendered to you and moved away from me like you ordered, stabbing him in the back was just reflexive."I give you 5 stars for this example.
Frankly, I don't like the idea of it being a toggle skill though. You actually have to get your turn to toggle skills, and I'm sure there'd be plenty of cases where you wouldn't get that opportunity before your character's reflex was abused, unless you just have it off all the time and render implementing it pointless.
"Snake" Wrote:AoO should have 100% chance to hit too, while we're at it.If we're going to suggest this, can we just have AoO function as an autohit? Otherwise, my concern with this system would be seeing situations where you have a Black Knight and a Ghost toe-to-toe, and while the implication is that the Black Knight should be the one benefiting from AoO, you're instead just going to have the Ghost use Haunting/Sidecut/etc. to get around the issue while the Black Knight will have to either Hanging for no additional hit due to the range or stick to autohits.
It just benefits Duelist a lot more than Soldier if you're allowing characters to a) evade an AoO and b) score a critical off of one. Duelists will benefit way too much from this system, and they're already a top pick for their versatility
I think making AoO an autohit would at least make this less of an issue, but I don't get that deep into PVP. Plenty of people who do have already pointed out their concerns with it, so I'd rather hear their thoughts on making it an autohit like so.
Re: Engagement - Snake - 05-28-2017
I just think by it being a trait you can choose if this will or not happen. Toggling will just make this a bit weird to implement but I have nothing against it, just the lack of thought that it would have much sense.
If in most of the times you're fighting, you don't want to hurt people, then why are you even fighting? Guard conflicts are most of the time solved before combat too.
Also, at Nanodesu, this can be pretty unique to each class. Main Classes could interact differently with 'Opportunity Strike', like I way I've mentioned on my Evasion vs Watchful Eyes. For now it's all just my brainstorming I think?
On Offensive:
- Soldier main class makes the ''Opportunity Strike'' become an 'autohit'.
- Archer main class makes it a free Cripple Arm with no Hit penalty and no FP cost.
- Rogue main class makes it a shank in the spine, crippling (reducing) the enemy's move to 1 and canceling their movement.
- Duelist main class makes it be either a free Sidecut or a Sillcut that costs no FP. (depends where the enemy is heading, diagonal or vertical)
- Martial Artist main class makes it knock the enemy away from you and after the enemy is knocked away, it warps you in front of them.
- Summoner main class makes it become an autohit if you have a Whip equipped, power is increased per each Youkai summoned.
- Curate main class makes you chop the enemy on top of their head and berate them for misbehaving. Applying a free Book Smack if you have a Tome equipped, maybe?
- Mage main class ain't gonna do nuffin'. They're mages.
On Defensive:
- Soldier main class won't do anything, they're being dishonorable for moving away.
- Archer main class has a Fortune Wind LV% chance of evading completely the attack, even if it is an autohit. (FW needs to be active.)
- Rogue main class has a passive Evasion% chance of evading completely the attack, even if it is an autohit.
- Duelist main class won't do anything either, running from combat is not elegant.
- Martial Artist main class will attempt to retaliate the opportunity strike, turning the enemy's opportunity strike into one for their own too right after the enemy's is done, but with a -40% hit penalty. (The hit penalty is reduced by -[Ki]% or -[Schwarz Sturm LV * 3]%)
- Summoner main class will swap positions with a random Youkai summoned, so they take the enemy's opportunity strike instead of themselves.
- Curate main class have a passive FAI/2 chance to deny Opportunity Strikes, as the enemy will be merciful.
- Mage main class ain't gonna do nuffin'. They're still mages. People with common sense will know why I'm being so harsh to them. (*cough* --Blink *cough* HSDW Lazarus Wind *cough*--)
Now yeah, shank me silly I just made it even more complicated to implement. But those are nice ideas, right?!-- Right? ...Anyone? *cricket*
But TBH, just stick to the more simple version of this. Watchful Eye turns it into an Autohit, Evasion works as means to dodge it even if it becomes an autohit. Maybe other minor and simple interactions with classes that won't be so complicated to talk about.
RE: Engagement - Pyro - 01-23-2023
I think attacks of opportunity and an engagement mechanic would make for a very interesting way of locking someone into melee engagement.
But I also think that it should be possible for them to activate on movement attacks, as a way to help prevent kiting. Furthermore, this encourages users to get nice and close with their allies, rather than splitting apart and hoping you can pinball someone between two players to kill them before their next turn.
Teleportation should ignore this. Gives more use to things like Shukuchi and Bluebeo, especially the latter.
RE: Engagement - Lolzytripd - 01-23-2023
squints eyes...2017.....This is some strong necromancy