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+--- Thread: [Edit] Remove crafting fees in general (/showthread.php?tid=8313)
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Jeff - 09-07-2021
Presumably if you've legend extended, you're not a brand new player and you can afford a slightly higher tax rate. The house rental isn't a big deal; even a casual can afford 2800 mural every two weeks.
I know you don't like having to throw money into the ether, but it's necessary.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Imotepchief - 09-08-2021
(09-07-2021, 10:21 PM)Jeff Wrote: Presumably if you've legend extended, you're not a brand new player and you can afford a slightly higher tax rate. The house rental isn't a big deal; even a casual can afford 2800 mural every two weeks.With the amount of housing still available outside of Sigrogana mainland, I see housing taxes as just an additional nuisance and as was already stated, shifts attention from the rp aspects of popular venues towards the mechanical element and personally I don't like that idea.
I know you don't like having to throw money into the ether, but it's necessary.
It's true that when you pass a certain threshold murai rarely matters, but again, personally, I find that to be a good thing, as wealthier individuals are more prone to splurg on something that enhances rp, whether it is upgrades to venues, paying employees or simply donating to causes or people.
When it comes to increasing tax as people LE, I also find that to be a bad idea. Even my most recent character had gone through four LE's before I'd broken 10k murai and still bounces around under that value for the most part, though mainly due to heavy rp focus over crafting
There seems to be this idea that having a lot of murai is a bad thing, but unlike irl, people with vast sums aren't acquiring it at the detriment of others, murai is initially generated from the world itself, so the idea of 'eat the rich' shouldn't really apply. I do however believe there should be more murai sinks, just not in regards to crafting or tax, as cutting fish with murai, breaking it in the process, seems silly.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Jeff - 09-08-2021
(09-08-2021, 02:48 PM)Imotepchief Wrote: Even my most recent character had gone through four LE's before I'd broken 10k murai and still bounces around under that value for the most part, though mainly due to heavy rp focus over crafting
Some people have kids before they're married or employed. Players should be given the agency to choose whether they're willing to trade away a "new player" tax rate for a higher one, in exchange for the benefits of LE.
And to be blunt, if you're only interested in RP, then you don't need to minmax your build anyway. So don't sweat it.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Snake - 09-08-2021
It's way too arbitrary to count on legend extensions, and it also brings the issue of some people utilizing low level characters to abuse this.
In the end I don't think this is a case where we can cope with, it's either lowered taxes and crafting taxes for everyone, or the removal of it. :pensive:
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Jeff - 09-08-2021
(09-08-2021, 05:12 PM)Snake Wrote: It's way too arbitrary to count on legend extensions, and it also brings the issue of some people utilizing low level characters to abuse this.
In the end I don't think this is a case where we can cope with, it's either lowered taxes and crafting taxes for everyone, or the removal of it. :pensive:
There's nothing at all arbitrary about it. If you are a brand new player, then you have not legend extended and will thus have a lower tax rate. If you're experienced enough to legend extend, then you understand the perks and are willing to pay a bit more. There's really no way to "abuse" this because you're mainly looking at taxes on shopkeeper stalls, houses (ideally) and goods purchased from shops. What are you going to do, rent a house using a non-LE'd alt and say it belongs to your main? That's a major inconvenience to save just a few hundred murai.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Imotepchief - 09-08-2021
(09-08-2021, 04:40 PM)Jeff Wrote: And to be blunt, if you're only interested in RP, then you don't need to minmax your build anyway. So don't sweat it.
I'm not only interested in RP, it's simply my main occupation on sl2. I also don't build any character in a min max fashion, they all grow depending on my rp, but... sometimes I need more outfit slots, you know?.. And gaining those +1 attribute points is just milestones, have something to keep the mechanical elements interesting, at least for me.
Regardless, I still feel like taxing player owned housing simply detracts from rp. There is plenty of housing available, even if it is outside of the 'main' island and people who don't regulaly have large groups of people either visiting or living with them, can easily use the Asago for their housing needs.
Shopkeeper tax is good where it is, any more and it wouldn't be worth it and any less would make it too 'free'. Goods purchased from shops being taxed based on rep is already a good way to go, though I feel like there needs to be things that actually fluctuate your rep, rather than have it forever increase.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Kazzy - 09-08-2021
The idea of increasing taxes based on LE is a terrible take. Crafter taxes were a terrible idea. Shopkeeper taxes were even worse because 'tax' implies that something is maintained. Nothing is maintained by country factions. One day it was just decided 'Everything is now 10% more expensive because reasons'. There are no roads, no public services, nothing to imply growth.
In SL2, it's inflation. Not taxes. Suffice to say I think if I purchase the convenience of having a mobile crafting platform, I should also purchase the convenience of not spending massive amounts of money on production. Simple as. If you think that's a pay to win mechanic, well. I hate to bring it to you but Asagos to reset your stats and rebuild is the very definition. Not 'Hey I contributed $5 to server upkeep costs to not have fish cost me 20 murai to process per piece'.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Jeff - 09-08-2021
(09-08-2021, 11:20 PM)Kazzy Wrote: The idea of increasing taxes based on LE is a terrible take. Crafter taxes were a terrible idea. Shopkeeper taxes were even worse because 'tax' implies that something is maintained.
In SL2, it's inflation. Not taxes.
In the real world, governments or other entities impose taxes to provide services. In games, taxes function as gold sinks to permanently destroy currency. This is necessary because currency is perpetually generated from things like winning battles and selling items to pawn shops. In a game like WoW, the gold sinks come in the form of repair costs and auction house fees. In SL2, they're in upgrading equipment and paying shopkeeper and crafting taxes.
While I agree that crafting taxes should be removed entirely, I also think that new/fresh players should be given a bit of a break to get on their feet while experienced players bite the bullet and pay higher rates than new players. We haven't even discussed figures yet, but in principle I think this is something most people can agree with.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Tanasinn - 09-09-2021
In the end, most of the population simply doesn't engage with pve content enough to truly outbalance what money is taken out, and there's not really any advantage to having large amounts of money in the first place. Prices don't fluctuate, and if anything, have only ever gone down, despite what would 'make sense'. When I started, even something practically useless was running 6-10k, now the same thing barely sells at 1k. We don't actually need further moneysinks in the game, until there's something for money to be useful towards.
RE: Waive crafting fee for portable crafting tables - Poruku - 09-10-2021
The idea of taxes is quite obviously a band-aid gold sink, aimed to hopefully take out some murai from an inflating economy. The reality is that this game needs more high-end gold sinks that don't affect the poor/new players as much. Because the reality is, despite all factors being in place for it, inflation is not an issue. Why? Because the people who make the economy spin are the "new" characters with 4k in their bank. Ultra-rich people simply do not participate in the economy much and as such don't affect it, because they don't need to buy anything and they don't need to sell anything except cheap stuff to maybe help people.
So all in all, I agree that we don't need taxes.