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+--- Thread: The Burn that Keeps Everything Awake (/showthread.php?tid=4006)
Re: The Burn that Keeps Everything Awake - Shujin - 01-11-2017
The only time when I used a Narcus the last few days, and actually did damage was on a no Res Character. I usually either run out on Narcus stack cause people play smart and KD/get out of effective range, are capable of dodging(It´s not that easy to hit a VA who also cuttthroat you. also VA get additional magic reduction..VAs are kinda the bane of normal NArcus users.) good enough or get hit for a 400 narcus stack and get like 160 damage.(
SO I can see lolzys point here. I guess making it physical is actually fair, cause that is alot easier to resist and you don´t damage spread (Normal attack physical, special magical) which is always a pretty strong effect.
I think thats a fair and reasonable step, if it´s still overbearing afterwards we can go on.
I mean sure I use a very tame build who is quite straight forward with it, but yeah...I think it´s not THAT bad.(even when I got one shot with it on Shiva, but that was because I simply played stupid and have 1% fire resist on her and just 20 res, I deserved that one for playing to offensive and got burnt by the flame.)
My two cents on the matter after some time playing with it now.
Edit: Oh yeah and double stack. That can actually be painful for no good reason.
On a sidenote: We used to have the effect outside of battle to show that someone is using that...And I thought about it...Can we maybe have some weapons be unconcealable? Narcus would be one of those. (and maybe outside of battle effect toggle for funzies?)
Re: The Burn that Keeps Everything Awake - Snake - 01-11-2017
That would promote metagame, not balance.
Re: The Burn that Keeps Everything Awake - Ranylyn - 01-12-2017
Okay, guys, I took a bit of a break since I was very sick and quite frankly not at my best in discussing things. But now I'm back to discuss things again. I'm still sick, but it's just mucus from an incredibly running nose dripping down my throat and making me gag and cough, instead of quite literally my entire body being wrong. Hopefully this will allow better judgment on my part.
First off, I'll address Sderg's post about why the Narcus was changed and is now uncapped: The change occurred Pre-Gr, for the following reasons, and I remember this well since it was my suggestion that got it changed in the first place:
- A lower hit would overwrite a bigger hit. Take 100 and then 5? COngratulations, you have level 5 Narcus.
- The cap used to be low enough that it was actually normal to see 0-5 damage on a capped hit.
- It was changed to stack so it can basically amount to anything, with an un-refreshable duration so you can't just heal and OHKO.
Now, it doesn't take a genius to see how times have changed since the GR, in terms of the core formulas and the tide of battle. Defense/Resistance are percentage based now, and damage goes a lot higher. This means that not only does 40 Res not mean a full 40 less damage if the Narcus damage is under 100, but the Narcus user is more likely to take large amounts of damage that really shouldn't stack for the Narcus's effect. So yeah, it needs a change.
Secondly, let's discuss Soapy's numbers. Honestly, while your average "oh, cool, a Narcus, I'll have a bit of fun with this" character may have numbers closer to my example, the fact remains that someone who really wants to go hog wild with the gimmick and build around it WILL do something closer to Soapy's example, and although those numbers do seem almost comically high, it IS more than possible.
Imagine a Glykin Bonder/Priest with a Knight Ring for getting some help waiting out Malmelo's cooldown if things get bad, Malmelo, 1000+ HP, single digit Def/Res, 70 water attack and a level 60 Asrai for Parraeta, a level 60 Seiryu for Hunter Wind, and two-handing a Narcus (with a nihilist) with enough skill to really make it count. It's an idea I've toyed with, myself, nicknamed "the Incindijaeger." You have to admit, that character would not only be a bitch to kill, but would also, in theory, realistically be expected to win against many builds that don't carry fire resistance or aren't hyperoffensive enough to take them down, first.
So yes. I do feel like the Narcus does need some nerfing. But not to the point of harming the average user. I've thought about it and I think a cap is the best method after all.
1) Effect changes to "Heaviest hit taken since last basic attack" and no longer stacks, BUT, also no longer expires until used. This should be fine since it does not stack. Retaliation damage is still 100%. This would work like any other status does now; overwrite with a higher level if applicable, but a lower level does not overwrite a higher one, which was a big problem with the old Narcus.
2) Cap Narcus damage at 100, but allow the level to go higher. This means that on a hit of 100 against 40 res, you'll do 60, but on a hit of 200+, you'll do the max of 100 against that same res. This way a really defensive character still can't get the full use out of it, but someone deliberately going low Def/Res isn't cheesing everyone else.
3) We can play with the Level consumed on miss idea. Why not?
Just my thoughts on the matter as a fan of the Narcus but not someone who's actually gone full cheese with it yet.
Re: The Burn that Keeps Everything Awake - Poptartu - 01-17-2017
There's also the counter play of the bonus only lasting so long. There's plenty of times in the meta where you'll lose if you keep attacking and have to back up and wait for buffs to end... I have a narcus tank and, yes while having extra damage on a tank is nice, she doesn't win an extraordinary number of fights with it. I think she's won 1 of her 5 fights.. narcus isn't that unbalancingly strong.