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Out of Luck - Printable Version

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Out of Luck - Ray2064 - 03-28-2023

Yet another newplayer Balance Fu thread from your commonly hated Ray2064. 

Luck as a stat imo just feels lacking for the investment you're giving into it, in the case where you're a basic attacker.



When you basic attack, critical hits are pretty much bread and butter, your way to get through.  Not being able to crit in a fight essentially halves your efficiency due to the usual lack of other options assuming you don't have much else to back up your worth in a fight. I get it's something one'd sign up for when basic-attacking, but it essentially means seeing a return to your investment isn't even guaranteed unless you go all in, leaving you all stat-starved for daring to try to accomplish your build's one purpose.

Then again, for STR crit builds, you then also have to find points to then put into Guile on-top of the Luck you've already invested in to be allowed to crit in the first place (god forbid you face someone who intentionally builds CE)

So to both tone down the investment needed for the stat and to somewhat better reward those building it already, how about simply making Luck give more crit ? Even X1.25 would be okay.

RE: Out of Luck - firehawk11 - 03-28-2023

Luck use to give you Evade & Hit Rate as well. I mentioned these points ages ago, STR crit builds need STR, GUI, LUK, SKI, that's rough 180 out of 240 stat points, so let's invest some into aptness, wait that's 20 stat points left for vit, def, res, wil or cel. Unlesws you dumop Aptness.

We really need to either rework stats again, get more stat points (Which wouldn't solve the problem), rework weapons like the old great reckoning 1 where weapon could scale purely off of other stats and most didn't use high % of STR, GUI, WIL. That would help us a lot if we could get out of this One element will be ice.

Luck is cool and lightning is ool, it does need help if you're not running a GUI dagger crit build or somehow including high skill...Wait everyone is, so you're getting like 30 crit from 60+ skill. I think it's just may be GUI as a stat that makes LUK seem not as fun, chance to crit but why crit when you crit only adds 5% more damage or so! It feels like you wasted 40+ points to only add an extra 5-10% damage per attack (100 - 110, 200-220) which isn't bad it's just...I rather put those 40+ points from LUK into vit, wil, cel, def or res.

https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=9991 If you want to see how I felt about this same topic just in a different way.

RE: Out of Luck - caliaca - 03-29-2023

Giving more crit per luck makes Cevade builds suffer.

I think this is mostly an issue with str builds.

To that end I'd rather see str give .5 crit per rank up instead.

Mostly cause giving it to luck makes those who are already good (Gun builds/mutates) and daggers better which is not needed.

RE: Out of Luck - Ray2064 - 03-29-2023

(03-29-2023, 01:09 PM)caliaca Wrote: Giving more crit per luck makes Cevade builds suffer.

I think this is mostly an issue with str builds.

To that end I'd rather see str give .5 crit per rank up instead.

Mostly cause giving it to luck makes those who are already good (Gun builds/mutates) and daggers better which is not needed.
Tbf, I don't think Cevade would suffer that much from a simple 1.25 per Luck- if anything, it'd simply give Luck-investing builds a chance to crit those in the first place. Though your recommendation of STR giving crit would actually be a pretty good change to fix the issue of STR/LUCK/GUI being absolutely lacking in stats. I do also agree with it being a mostly STR-builds issue, since VAs just eats really good in general.

RE: Out of Luck - firehawk11 - 03-29-2023

Well Skill also gives critical boosts.

RE: Out of Luck - caliaca - 03-29-2023

It does. It's not really enough for str based critters though.

RE: Out of Luck - sadbot - 03-29-2023

I'm all for making luck give 1.25 or even 1.5 crit per point. Particularly in Korvara where you're already hurting without +10 free crit from prayer, I constantly find it very difficult to get a good amount of crit on anything that isn't a rogue promotion with daggers.

RE: Out of Luck - Lolzytripd - 03-29-2023

(03-28-2023, 01:13 PM)firehawk11 Wrote: Luck use to give you Evade & Hit Rate as well. I mentioned these points ages ago, STR crit builds need STR, GUI, LUK, SKI, that's rough 180 out of 240 stat points, so let's invest some into aptness, wait that's 20 stat points left for vit, def, res, wil or cel. Unlesws you dumop Aptness.

We really need to either rework stats again, get more stat points (Which wouldn't solve the problem), rework weapons like the old great reckoning 1 where weapon could scale purely off of other stats and most didn't use high % of STR, GUI, WIL. That would help us a lot if we could get out of this One element will be ice.

Luck is cool and lightning is ool, it does need help if you're not running a GUI dagger crit build or somehow including high skill...Wait everyone is, so you're getting like 30 crit from 60+ skill. I think it's just may be GUI as a stat that makes LUK seem not as fun, chance to crit but why crit when you crit only adds 5% more damage or so! It feels like you wasted 40+ points to only add an extra 5-10% damage per attack (100 - 110, 200-220) which isn't bad it's just...I rather put those 40+ points from LUK into vit, wil, cel, def or res.

https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=9991 If you want to see how I felt about this same topic just in a different way.
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The only solution is to remove crit damage from guile, make guile do some other small niche thing (look its already got skill slots and flanking) Like ignoring a % of Dr showing your sneakiness to get around defenses and resistances.

Return to the age old 2x or a more balanced 1.5x crit modifier......

Strength basic attackers would magically be able to afford having enough crit to do their thing, enough hit to hit most things, and afford -some- but not as good as a non crit build, defensive options.

RE: Out of Luck - Autumn - 03-29-2023

I think 1.5 Crit per point of LUC is fine, there's nothing wrong with that, you're bumping up general crit rates by 20-25, which may give crit evade some trouble but not enough to make them worthless.

RE: Out of Luck - firehawk11 - 03-29-2023

But this doesn't solve the problem of stat spread. upping luck to 1. CRIT per point of LUK is just like saying get an extra 20 points of LUK, so go to 60 scaled LUC vs 40 scaled LUC.

In the end 1.5 LUK would save you what, 10-15 stat points if you do not go to 40 LUK since 1.5 CRITICAL would let you go like 30 LUK for 40+ Scaled LUK for Critical. So can 10 Stat points of 180 > 170 total required for STR,SKI,LUK,GUI really help that much?

Maybe give STR some Crit Damage on STR Weapons. like .25 per point of strength? That way 40 scaled strength gives 10 bonus Crit Damage. Or even go to .5 Crit Damage for anything that used 70% or more STR scaling. Which means you would need less Guile technically, or it would just break cause double dipping...maybe reduce GUI effect on STR scaling weapons.