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Being an Oracle is very punishing - Printable Version

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Being an Oracle is very punishing - Autumn - 04-12-2023

Currently Oracles are seen as an incredibly high risk but high reward race, with a passive +10% to evade and +10% hit rate to enemies in 1 range they can achieve the highest hit/evade rates from racials in the game, the problem arises when they are not targeted in 1 range, which nearly everyone can do now that hit rate matters for more than just basic attacks. Take for example any base class ability like Shinken or Couloir.

This -10% is so punishing to the oracle themself that you are basically griefing your own build if you attempt to build dodge on one, it's fun for sure, but you are far better off not playing the evade game against people who know your own short sightedness, which is loudly proclaimed to the rest of the battle when Pre-ordinance kicks in to let everyone know "ORACLE RIGHT HERE"

This leaves you as a race with an incredibly strong close range game, in the past this was fitting for oracles to have as they would have the option of being a basic attacking monster, but also be allowed to be more traditional in what an oracle's role may actually be, usually a mage of some sort to fit the 'guidance' or 'counselor' motif that is spelled out in their lore.

Long story short, I believe that oracles are in need of another rework of some kind, I really dislike the current risky playstyle of oracles, and while I do believe some people like this, I also firmly believe that they are far better off in a different state, there could likely be more fitting options for them to have as well.

For one I'd like to abolish their close and far ranged hit/evade penalties, I think these are the forefront of issues for oracles, both in balancing them healthily and for making them not feel too limited in most cases.

Secondly I think there are a lot of good alternative options for reading off future vision such as:


Quote:-A chance to automatically turn towards an attack
-Increased parry chances
-Increased chance to bypass parries


Pre-ordinance is a weird passive, currently it only benefits evasive characters, here is a way to benefit both evasive and defensive characters:


Quote:-Forces the next attack made on the oracle to Glance and then expires the status (activates every 2-3 rounds similar to now), if this status is active then the oracle's next attack is evasion-ignoring, also expiring the status.


These are merely some weird suggestions, I believe that its better left in Dev's hands at the end of the day, but I am expressing that Oracles to me do not feel like they're in a cohesive feeling spot, with my only build ideas coming to mind ever are some variation of Black Knight so I don't get screwed by my passive.

RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - Snake - 04-12-2023

If I was you, I'd trade the Hit/Evade interactions with what was mentioned. It's more interesting for the race to actually display feats of foreseeing the future of things in a more meaningful way.

Hell, those three interactions could each be a trait that replaces the Oracle Hit/Evade's part, if we want to go for a fix that pleases everyone.

Also the forced Glancing Blow should be something that Heavy Armor should nullify tbh.

RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - Shujin - 04-13-2023

I disagree with the Evasion Ignore part every second to third round. I do not want to be hit with an Autohit invocation every other round, from another vydll kiter, thank you very much.

Rest is fine.

RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - Autumn - 04-13-2023

Yeah thats fine, as I said in the OP they're mostly weird suggestions, I do think the forced glancing blow is more than fine however, I would be okay with it being restricted to Unarmored/Light Armor as well. When you think about it, 1 forced glancing blow on a skill every 3 rounds is not so bad, with the one trait reducing that to 2 rounds, likely with some sort of downside attached, likely otherwise with the trait that increases the cooldown as well.

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RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - Shujin - 04-13-2023

forced glancing blow I'd be fine with, cause of how its set up...Meaning if its progging as a defensive, it be on cooldown anyway, and even amapwide glancing hit ain't so bad. So I'd be fine with that entirely.

Little "Nitpick" as I am sure you meant it this way:
-Forces the next attack THAT WOULD HIT the oracle to Glance and then expires the status (activates every 2-3 rounds similar to now)...

Just to be sure it doesn't force a glance on an attack that they would have dodged otherwise.

RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - PantherPrincess - 04-13-2023

I actually like these suggestions a lot but I'm on the fence as well about gaining an autohit via pre-ordinance as that just feels a bit much. But I do agree on a lot of the other points being made entirely. I also think the forced glancing should be unarmored only as I don't think any kind of tank should benefit from something like this but that's just my opinion. Both a forced glance and an autohit are incredibly powerful tools especially if they're inserted into a racial category as most other races rely on outside sources for this whether its fortunite or specific class skills that evasion ignore.

RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - Snake - 04-16-2023

Yeah, I really like the idea, and lets Oracles stand out no matter what build. Please change this ASAP, it's worth at least testing.

RE: Being an Oracle is very punishing - renowner - 04-17-2023

I hard agree. I've hard agreed to this for YEARS. I was floored when Dev removed the funny secret +8 evade racial oracles had, which was the only thing that made me even consider playing one. The -10% hit and evade penalty is so punishing in a way you can't really play around most of the time. Especially when high range weapons are already so strong comparatively. And how easy it is to always stay out of melee range when you end your turn.

The +10% Evade and hit, and -10% evade and hit are multiplicitive unlike most things. So you're really losing a good 22+. But the gains are not even considered base, so they clash with evasives, as you already want the +50 evade bonus to be capped. So if they attack you from melee range, generally you don't even see an improvement. This punishes evasive oracles so hard because their boons aren't really boons and their nerfs are MASSIVE.

The hit thing is much less of an issue because generally you won't be hitting the +50 cap for hit anyway, and as an oracle you'd just focus on attacking up close.
Its the fundamental flaw. I wouldn't really want to give Oracles anything too game changing.

I'd change it to be a flat +10 / -10 to hit and evade. This makes it far less punishing, as you're not suddenly losing 23 evasion just because they're not smelling your hair.
AND/OR
to rework it so that the hit/evade boosts and nerfs are considered BASE. This would then make it so up close oracles are evasive gods, and still pretty fragile from range. Currently up close a buffed oracle is basically the same as if they weren't an oracle.
OR
To force an additional hit check where you use the worse roll if you're attacking someone far away, and force an additional hit check where they use the better roll if they attack you from far away.

For the traits, I do think disengage is kinda meh. Evasives are gonna be buffing their evade to the maximum anyway. It ends up doing nothing.
I'd rather it be changed to emergency evasion, to grant a free glance. Issue then becomes I don't know how to scale it with the patient/swift traits.
Or you just change it from disengage to Oracle Sight, which changes the evasion buff for that one attack to be considered base.
Or you just change it from disengage to Oracle Sight, which disables the next instance of your passive being triggered at range. Swift does it for once instance, normal for two, patient for three. The turns would need to be adjusted accordingly for them.