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+--- Thread: Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) (/showthread.php?tid=11125)
Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) - Flun - 05-19-2024
I understand how letting a teammate die is not all too tactical, but the fact tactics instantly reset when one gets reduced to 0hp feels a bit harsh, considering how both tactician isn't much a healing class, the fact that some defeats are tactical in themselves and the fact that tactics are hard enough to build as is.
For example, this applies to pawn automatons, you'd think the chess class, which is all about tactical sacrifices, could get around this reset, though instead when a pawn dies, all those charge orders and the momentum used on them have gone to complete waste. Initially this was to address that one interaction, but I feel as if a penalty like -1/2 grades for an ally being defeated or even it being removed is a bit more well rounded than the penalty that currently exists.
TLDR, weak spammable units (like seeker flame or pawns) shouldn't decrease tactics like dark eyes do, or the tactic decrease upon defeat penalty should be lessened or removed IMO.
RE: Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) - Rendar - 05-19-2024
(05-19-2024, 03:24 AM)Flun Wrote: I understand how letting a teammate die is not all too tactical, but the fact tactics instantly reset when one gets reduced to 0hp feels a bit harsh, considering how both tactician isn't much a healing class, the fact that some defeats are tactical in themselves and the fact that tactics are hard enough to build as is.
For example, this applies to pawn automatons, you'd think the chess class, which is all about tactical sacrifices, could get around this reset, though instead when a pawn dies, all those charge orders and the momentum used on them have gone to complete waste. Initially this was to address that one interaction, but I feel as if a penalty like -1/2 grades for an ally being defeated or even it being removed is a bit more well rounded than the penalty that currently exists.
TLDR, weak spammable units (like seeker flame or pawns) shouldn't decrease tactics like dark eyes do, or the tactic decrease upon defeat penalty should be lessened or removed IMO.
I'd love for a 1 SP move in Tactician with a 2 turn C/D that costs either 0m or 1m, that is thus...
"False Sense of Security
Sometimes a general makes tough decisions that sees the loss of his men to lure their enemies into an unwitting trap. When this skill is activated, deaths of allied units over the next turn do not count towards losing your Tactics Rank. A great Tactical mind is required for this, requiring an A-tier Tactics Rank, and reducing your Tactics Rank by 1 when used."
That or just getting rid of the mechanic. It's kind of silly.
RE: Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) - Flun - 05-19-2024
(05-19-2024, 04:00 AM)Rendar Wrote:(05-19-2024, 03:24 AM)Flun Wrote: I understand how letting a teammate die is not all too tactical, but the fact tactics instantly reset when one gets reduced to 0hp feels a bit harsh, considering how both tactician isn't much a healing class, the fact that some defeats are tactical in themselves and the fact that tactics are hard enough to build as is.
For example, this applies to pawn automatons, you'd think the chess class, which is all about tactical sacrifices, could get around this reset, though instead when a pawn dies, all those charge orders and the momentum used on them have gone to complete waste. Initially this was to address that one interaction, but I feel as if a penalty like -1/2 grades for an ally being defeated or even it being removed is a bit more well rounded than the penalty that currently exists.
TLDR, weak spammable units (like seeker flame or pawns) shouldn't decrease tactics like dark eyes do, or the tactic decrease upon defeat penalty should be lessened or removed IMO.
I'd love for a 1 SP move in Tactician with a 2 turn C/D that costs either 0m or 1m, that is thus...
"False Sense of Security
Sometimes a general makes tough decisions that sees the loss of his men to lure their enemies into an unwitting trap. When this skill is activated, deaths of allied units over the next turn do not count towards losing your Tactics Rank. A great Tactical mind is required for this, requiring an A-tier Tactics Rank, and reducing your Tactics Rank by 1 when used."
That or just getting rid of the mechanic. It's kind of silly.
God imagine if you could get tactic from that too, bargaining with the enemy, kill an ally now and have to face higher tactics or keep the tactician weaker
also, to add. tacticians can see detriment when playing with other party members, as their wraithguards ,seeker flames, pawns, all reset their tactics to 0 once defeated, it's counterproductive to the point of tactician being the ally centric class
RE: Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) - Autumn - 05-19-2024
As much as I'd love to say that Tactician deserves some buffs in a lot of areas, especially this one, this is one of the few things that keeps Enemy Evaluation in it's current state in check because man facing down the barrel of a gun that says you have -20% Hit/Evade/Crit Evade/Damage is just straight up not fun.
I don't mean to sound so hyperbolic right now but it quite genuinely is and has been the pain point of this class since the rework that allowed Dark Eyes to spread the status, 5 years ago it was changed to be 6m, which was only a bandage over the absolute horror this class can inflict in it's best case scenarios.
I beg for this skill to not be as match ending as it is so that Tactician can receive a lot more love but in it's current state I just don't see it being healthy to take away one of the counterplays to this ultimately extremely devastating strategy, especially when paired with sources of self-confusion now.
RE: Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) - Flun - 05-19-2024
What if analyse weakness and enemy evaluation played more into the elemental side of tactitian? Something like, -15% elemental defense for enemies for that 6M so they can actually use the weakness procs their class comes with, and +15% elemental resist or just +15% damage reduction for targeted enemies so they can be more tanky or proc more resistances. Curate already eats that good, with mono aquamancers shredding elemental resist and lantern bearers being potent omnires builds for less momentum
this could very well be a bad idea, as already lantern bearer + this tactitian adds up to 25% elemental resist across the board (though high san and the right equipment/youkai/that haunted doll accessory can already do this) but fuck it why dont we suggest improvements or replacements for those abilities while we're here ey?
RE: Sacrifices must be made (tactitian) - Poruku - 05-20-2024
Man just take enemy evaluation out of the game and fix tactician, we can't let that stop tactics rank from being viable but it's definitely the thing that makes balancing the class really difficult. I made a thread about this recently; EE is just a skill that doesn't make sense for the current balance of SL2 as it is.