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+--- Thread: Never Meet Your Idols (/showthread.php?tid=11161)
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Never Meet Your Idols - Ray2064 - 05-31-2024
I don't think anyone will argue with me when I say that Idol is arguably the most cookie-cutter item in the game, or at least when it comes to Mages.
The fine print of the item, shaving enemy resistance, sounds quite nifty, but nothing gamebreaking, until you realize that it goes into NEGATIVES, for those few who may be unaware. Meaning a 2% player's resist will turn into a minus 8%, and so on. That basically means the glove slot just boosts your spell's damages (already amongst the highest sources of damage in the game btw) by a flat tenth of the damage you'd otherwise deal.
In it's current state, the item is essentially 10% free damage on your own spells (Or 20% in PVE), with the most of the time fairly inconsequential drawback of -10% light Resistance. That's the main reason that it's the de-facto mage glove slot. It's easy to run, and offers an undeniable advantage at any time, arguably even so if you run into a scenario where you encounter Light damage.
It's not even so much as a braindead choice, as that'd imply there being a choice in the first place- a mage not even using the Indignant Idol tends to be the exception to the rule, and usually in favor of an item like a shield, since no glove slot really equals it when it comes to Mages, save for Nihilist, or Conversion Gloves in certain cases. Nearly every single mage runs it as their glove slot, and with good reason, since it's in nearly every single case added value.
Whereas crit builds might have the option between Rogue Gloves, Crownbleeders, Shifty Pockets, Conversion gloves, Ghosthand, Dragon King, or more bulky builds might hesitate between a variant of a shield, Nullstone Gauntlets, Chimera Bands- nearly every single mage (that I know of, anyway) runs Idol. The item is just free.
In my opinion, the solution would just be for Idol...not to go into negatives. That way, it'd still accomplish the function of shaving down enemy elemental resistance, while it wouldn't essentially turn into free damage in every possible scenario.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Rendar - 05-31-2024
Remember kids, its more than a 10/20% damage increase.
In the newer dungeons (See: Sunken Forest, etc), enemies tend to have a 24% weakness to an element. Something that Idol allows to be abused. Which gives 1 momentum.
Which means in those specific instances, they turn the 24% weakness into a 44% weakness. Which allows for a third action.
So it's more like a... 80% damage increase?
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - zericosmic - 06-02-2024
It's.. really the only option if you want to increase your damage as a mage.. And I don't mean that as "it's so good you don't wanna run anything else" it's just, really the only option you have for increasing your damage, because most glove slots do very little if anything for mages.
Nerfing it isn't going to do anything except make shields the only meta option, and shields on mages are already relatively competitive meta-wise, or be replaced with smokescreen tech for evadies, something that is also strong.
If Idol eats a nerf it should be accompanied with more hand slot items that actually do something in terms of damage for mages.
Also mages doing more damage in PvE with it and potentially procing weakness, isn't a problem imo.. They're some of the few people in the game who can be completely invalidated in PvE content by mobs absorbing or reflecting their pokemon damage type, which can be only remedied by a rare ass 9* item that does nothing for them but remedy that specific problem in absorb situation.. I don't think having instances where mages excel at grinding a specific mob that is weak to their element is a serious problem.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - MegaBlues - 06-02-2024
Mages used to be able to proc weaknesses in PvE no problem before SAN was introduced and never adjusted for. Idol re-enabling that is a band-aid fix.
Also, yes, most equipment for casters functionally acts as stat-sticks because so little actually interacts with spellcasting.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Autumn - 06-02-2024
It's gotten out of hand in the past so much that previous weakness enablers like splash had to be nerfed for it's wrongdoings. It limits what and how much weakness% is allowed for mages to have now so long as it reduces resistances below 0% in my opinion (Thank god Bard doesn't have magic honestly), it could stand to eat a reduced effectiveness if the attack were to bring it below 0%, or even not bring it below 0% at all.
but as it stands this item is also effective at making omniwalls have to stoke their resistances higher to not simply wall out most magic damage builds either, so its current presence should stay as powerful as it is against those. It is important to keep mage item variety at play so there SHOULD be more options, spelldaze gloves are a good start imo! But no one's gonna use those over 10% to 20% more damage at all points.
It could be as simple as raising the resistance shred to 15% while also making it not reduce resistances past 0%, as that usually stems the issue of it being a free damage item for mages. Exactly what bloody palms will be criticized over in the future I wager.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Poruku - 06-02-2024
A reduction of 10% resistance is actually bigger than you might initially imagine.
If your enemy has 0% resistance, this means you deal 110% damage.
If your enemy has 10% resistance, this means you deal 100% instead of 90%, thus your damage is increased by 11.1%
At 20% resistance, this increases your damage by 12.5%
At 30% resistance, damage is increased by 14.2% AND you get to keep your momentum.
It's an absolutely massive item against any enemy that also nullifies the main counter to elemental damage. I honestly think the fact it reduces it past 0 isn't even a big issue. It's the fact that you're consistently getting solid damage even against resistant enemies. The fact it basically ruins the whole point of omni-res builds. Though I guess if it did not reduce it past zero, it would at least only do that, and not also provide a bonus against many enemies, so it wouldn't be constantly ran.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Sawrock - 06-02-2024
I like the idea of making the Idol not go into negatives, and I would also prefer there would be a new item that would only go into the negatives for the element you have as your highest elemental attack (and perhaps offering a -10% elemental resistance to that same element).
Even though it would be horribly un-meta, it could allow funny interaction with arcane enchanted of those weird elemental-attack-stealing weapons...
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Rendar - 06-02-2024
I am all for an "Elemental Negation" hand-slot item that negates the ele-resist of your starsign so you can't be doomwalled by someone going "Oh thats an aquamancer" and equipping 80% water res.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Snake - 06-03-2024
Could be something that comes out of Tetra Gauntlet.
RE: Never Meet Your Idols - Raigen.Convict - 06-03-2024
What if we bring back Bloody Palms? 15% hunted aint bad right?