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+--- Thread: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers (/showthread.php?tid=11271)
Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - Neus - 07-08-2024
In light of certain things, both past and more recent, I feel like now is a good time to make this post and discuss a topic which I have had on my mind for a while.
My intention is not to call anyone out, make anyone feel offended, and so on. This is meant as an awareness check, and a discussion. I'm not sure if people are cognizant of these things when they happen, or have felt certain ways because of it, but have been unable to diagnose the cause; nor do I think some people are aware of its impact and long-term effects on the community as a whole.
Feedback, How To Give It, and How Not To Give It
Because an RP game is a community-focused environment, where much of the content is created for and by the members of that community, feedback is a very important tool used to gauge and communicate experiences we have within it. Experiences such as events, or player-based plot lines.
Honesty is an important aspect of giving feedback; your feelings should be clear when you express yourself. "I liked this, because this reason. I didn't like that, because that reason." Something equally important is Empathy; the delivery of your feedback determines how it is taken. You can be considerate of the receiver of your feedback while also being honest.
Both of these factors are important, because they are the basic building blocks for constructive feedback, which in turn is used for improvement. If your negative feedback is honest but lacks empathy, it is not much different from whining. Conversely, if your positive feedback is empathetic but lacks honesty, it stunts any chance to address your concerns effectively.
Negativity
One thing to keep in mind is that when people create event lines, they are often putting forth a good deal of effort. Part of it is, yes, that they have a story that they want to tell, but aside from the good feeling of player props, they don't get any tangible reward. While it is perfectly fine to point out flaws, there are times where negativity and emotion overflows more than is deserved.
It's important to try to stay objective and balanced when you are formulating opinions, doubly so when it's towards someone else's creative efforts. There is nothing that wilts motivation quicker for the average person than vitriol.
There is almost no scenario, even if an event is a poor experience, where one should be feeling angry. If you are in the event with others, and discussing it OOCly (in a voice chat, for example), you need to be careful about letting frustrations run wild. You don't want to have a group of people work each other up into a frenzy and then let loose on the person responsible for the event like they just keyed their car.
This isn't constructive. It's akin to getting pricked by a thorny branch and then burning the whole bush. It alienates you (and/or your group of players) from that person, or even a larger section of players who might want to follow in their footsteps creating plotlines. When people feel alienated from others, they do not engage with them. When people do not engage with others, nothing happens.
Nothing happening benefits absolutely no one.
Of course, it is understandable to feel frustrated if you feel your past feedback hasn't been taken into account in subsequent events. Event runners should keep an open mind when they parse feedback to try and see things from the player's perspective, and make adjustments appropriately.
Time & Place
Feedback given as something is going on is, at best, not very useful. That's not to say that you shouldn't say 'whoa that was cool!', and such, if something that wows you happens during an event. The person responsible for the event is going to want to hear that.
However, if you're having a bad experience, the worst thing you can do is express your discontent publicly as the event is going on. There are several reasons for this;
- In all likelihood, the event runner isn't going to be able to address your concerns. They're busy running an event.
- Because they're running an event, it may slip their mind by the time it's over.
- Your negativity may cause other players to become annoyed with you for ruining their good vibes.
- It runs the risk of derailing the event with arguments, and puts focus on the OOC instead of the IC.
But if you groan in LOOC about 'this event sucks' or 'I'm just gonna leave, this is lame', that is not okay behavior. Don't do it. People who behave like this may find themselves being asked to sit out of events if they can't control themselves.
Silence
All of this applies when you're discussing things elsewhere, outside of proper feedback channels, by the way. It's understandable to be more candid when you're discussing things with your friends, but abject negativity has a way of flowing back.
If you dislike a happening, an event, or whatever, but you do not make that known to the subject, then you can't expect anything to change. Even worse, if they find out that you've said harsh things exclusively in private, it can have a greater negative impact than even poorly constructed feedback would.
Please be aware of that, as well.
I think that the majority of the community already lives by this without being told, but as this does crop up from time to time, I thought it would be worthwhile to put it to a post. Some of the contents of the post may be co-opted for an 'event etiquette' page on the wiki for easy reference.
Thank you for reading! Let me know your thoughts.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - WaifuApple - 07-08-2024
Detailed examples involving Risu again could probably be appreciated on a topic like this, because feedback is one of those things that people see with an inconsistent lens. Some people give feedback in different ways, some lighter and some harsher, and I think having a good demonstration of good, constructive criticism and problematic, bad criticism (ideally showing an edge case where someone might think they're being constructive when they aren't is more valuable for people who end up being unconstructive when they mean well) would help immensely.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - Rendar - 07-08-2024
Yeah. I can definitely say that there are some instances, recently, where I've been overboard in my criticism.
However, I will say one thing. Leaving an event because you aren't having fun-- so long as you do it in a proper way, should always be something that is acceptable. "Hey guys. Sorry. I'm not having fun and I feel like if I stay I'm gonna bring down the vibe." is acceptable in my mind. Versus "Hey guys. This event sucks. I'm leaving."
If I'm not having fun at an event, I'm going to try and go with the former (and have before). But yeah. Feedback is a circle of negativity if you allow for it to be such. Especially if Feedback is posted before the event is even over.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - lalchi - 07-08-2024
it's reasonable that people want to leave an event if they aren't having fun.
I feel like, as an EM, if someone tells me they wanna stop cause they are not enjoying the event, i'd accept their leave and apology, or work with them a way for them to have fun.
(really depends of the situation)
I think there was only one instance of criticism where i raised an eyebrow, and that was one that wasn't targeted to one of my event.
For the original post, to me it all sounds like common courtesy. But still, it's important to make a reminder, so thanks for that dev.
I would had that criticism should focus on the event in question and nothing else.
I saw many time remarks on the players playstyle or reaction.
The game mechanics limits.
Or other happening that is not a result of the event or out of control of the EM.
Those are point that even if stated, an EM can't really do much about it.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - Poruku - 07-08-2024
(07-08-2024, 05:44 PM)Rendar Wrote: Leaving an event because you aren't having fun-- so long as you do it in a proper way, should always be something that is acceptable. "Hey guys. Sorry. I'm not having fun and I feel like if I stay I'm gonna bring down the vibe."I gotta be honest, doing that will bring down the vibe either way. If someone says they're not having fun and leaves mid-event, I'm gonna take it bad. Not taking it personally but like, as an insult to my event. At least make up some sort of excuse for something happening IRL and needing to go. Saying "Hey guys I don't like this, I'm gonna go" feels disrespectful even if it's said in the most polite way possible. The event was made for you, the player, and you signed up and decided to participate in the story we're making together.
I would rather they give me constructive feedback, tell me what exactly is the problem they're having, so we can move on. If you're feeling tired or ill or just not in the mood then say that, but if you have a problem with the event to the point where you have to leave, tbh either offer a solution or make up an excuse. I've never before been in an event that made me so uncomfortable I had to leave or felt a desire to, and honestly, being bored is not a good reason to leave. I get that we're here to have fun but this is still SL2, we have to try to make things fun sometimes too. If the reason is genuinely like, something bothering you, then that's valid of course, but that can be worked on together.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - sirtrex - 07-08-2024
If any of the feedback i've given to people in the past has rubbed people the wrong way. My apologies. I've tried my best to format my feedback as addressing issues rather than dunking on people or being destructive.
I have been a bit longwinded at points, and that is something I'm trying to work on.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - Caboozles - 07-08-2024
(07-08-2024, 07:57 PM)sirtrex Wrote: -snippet-This is more to do with people mid-event going "THIS EVENT SUCKS AND I WANT OUT".
Feedback in a feedback thread is where the GMs can tell you if you're going too far.
Dev's talking mid-event where people are shitting on things and taking a wrecking-ball to an event.
RE: Feeding The Back For Pro Gamers - Rendar - 07-08-2024
(07-08-2024, 07:43 PM)Poruku Wrote:(07-08-2024, 05:44 PM)Rendar Wrote: Leaving an event because you aren't having fun-- so long as you do it in a proper way, should always be something that is acceptable. "Hey guys. Sorry. I'm not having fun and I feel like if I stay I'm gonna bring down the vibe."I gotta be honest, doing that will bring down the vibe either way. If someone says they're not having fun and leaves mid-event, I'm gonna take it bad. Not taking it personally but like, as an insult to my event. At least make up some sort of excuse for something happening IRL and needing to go. Saying "Hey guys I don't like this, I'm gonna go" feels disrespectful even if it's said in the most polite way possible. The event was made for you, the player, and you signed up and decided to participate in the story we're making together.
I would rather they give me constructive feedback, tell me what exactly is the problem they're having, so we can move on. If you're feeling tired or ill or just not in the mood then say that, but if you have a problem with the event to the point where you have to leave, tbh either offer a solution or make up an excuse. I've never before been in an event that made me so uncomfortable I had to leave or felt a desire to, and honestly, being bored is not a good reason to leave. I get that we're here to have fun but this is still SL2, we have to try to make things fun sometimes too. If the reason is genuinely like, something bothering you, then that's valid of course, but that can be worked on together.
DEFINITELY fair. I'll probably take that up. I didn't mean exactly in that wording, but as shrimple as "Hey guys. I'm gonna head out." what have you.