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+--- Thread: In Regard To The Recent Announcement (/showthread.php?tid=11325)
In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
I want to make this clear. This isn't an attempt to make the staff reconsider their decision on the topic.
What I really want is accountability, clarity, and, in my opinion, less hypocrisy regarding the details of the announcement. I'll simply point out what I personally see wrong while keeping it objective. It's the reader's initiative to agree or disagree with me in the replies. Which I do want. After all, I simply want a discussion rather than an accusation that gets no one anywhere in this context.
I'll start with the obvious. What does 'Criticism of women' even entail? It's a sexist statement on its own without context, and it doesn't have any context. It's a completely nonsensical topic to mute someone over. Why can't someone criticize women? Why doesn't it say person instead? I have no idea what this even means.
A rule without clarification is automatically bad, even if it has morally upright intentions. This rule, which it is since the Staff will be muting people over this, shouldn't even be here if we look at this from another angle.
Dev himself has stated he doesn't want any non-in-game politics in the discord. Which is very fine and completely his choice. But I feel this announcement, in my opinion, completely wrecks the neutrality of the server due to its one-sided policy. While I don't like implying basic acceptance and etc are political, at the end of the day, they still are considered political to many people. But, seriously, you guys could've just stated, 'Any political jokes will be penalized with mutes', and it would've made a less questionable ruling and got the results you wanted.
But let's talk about the standard itself now.
The announcement is lacking and seemingly had no thought put into it. It doesn't even specify the severity of the mutes or the other measures they plan to enact. It doesn't even make the Staff accountable for any of their mutes, too. There's an Eventmin log and a public GM ban log. Why are there no details accounting for that? Why can Staff members just mute whoever without it being logged publicly? I assume this is the case because the announcement didn't even detail logging these mutes and punishments publicly for the community to see. Why is there no implied consistency here despite previous statements of such?
Overall, I find this announcement concerning due to its lack of anything of substance. It's basically just telling everyone they can mute anyone who makes political and potentially offensive humor and do more. That's it. That's the barebones skeleton of this post, it's literally just that if we take away the moral posturing it offers.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Mewni - 07-21-2024
This ain't it.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 08:31 AM)Mewni Wrote: This ain't it.
I don't understand? I assume you're thinking I'm against the whole announcement itself. I'm fine with it, really. I just wished the staff put more effort into it than just a one paragraph announcement post. If I'm wrong please do actually state what your problem is with my post. I don't mind being wrong for the right reasons if it can help push discussion along.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Vanilla - 07-21-2024
idk how anyone can take objection to an announcement asking people to stop being misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic
what is neutrality here? a middle ground between bigotry and acceptance? like letting people be a LITTLE bigoted? maybe two slurs a day but no more?
personally i love that the admins are trying to make this a kinder more accepting place and it makes me love the game even more
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 08:43 AM)Vanilla Wrote: idk how anyone can take objection to an announcement asking people to stop being misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic
what is neutrality here? a middle ground between bigotry and acceptance? like letting people be a LITTLE bigoted? maybe two slurs a day but no more?
personally i love that the admins are trying to make this a kinder more accepting place and it makes me love the game even more
Neutrality is either letting both side make fun of each other or not. I likely should've defined it. So, I apologize for leaving it up in the air.
Also, this discussion isn't about that. I'm talking about Responsibility and Accountability of the staff if they do mute people. There's a GM ban log for a reason. So, why shouldn't there be one for mutes?
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - polly - 07-21-2024
Pretty sure we've not really had the opportunity to have mutes happen.
I've personally never really heard of any GMs muting anyone for anything.
You're basing your entire argument of "GMs can mute anyone with zero consequences" on lack of evidence.
Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.
Otherwise, the rest of your post kinda just makes no sense.
Nobody wants political discussions in any of the SL2 servers. If you do, you're in the wrong community period.
The other ones I kinda have no clue why they're even an issue. If you're a decent human being that announcement shouldn't even matter to you.
that's all.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Vanilla - 07-21-2024
muting someone doesn't take away their ability to play the game, a ban is a huge thing that arguably warrants a banlog section like we have.
the reason the announce specifically addresses what it does is because it was an issue that has been happening a lot lately. they're not saying some types of discrimination are okay.
in what way do you feel it hasn't been neutral? bigotry was happening, ppl have been warned to stop. it seems so simple to me.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 08:54 AM)polly Wrote: Pretty sure we've not really had the opportunity to have mutes happen.
I've personally never really heard of any GMs muting anyone for anything.
You're basing your entire argument of "GMs can mute anyone with zero consequences" on lack of evidence.
Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.
Otherwise, the rest of your post kinda just makes no sense.
Nobody wants political discussions in any of the SL2 servers. If you do, you're in the wrong community period.
The other ones I kinda have no clue why they're even an issue. If you're a decent human being that announcement shouldn't even matter to you.
that's all.
They can mute anyone with zero consequences? Their mutes wouldn't be logged if they happened. No one would be able to criticize anything if didn't know they happen. Also, my entire argument isn't about the zero consequences, too. One of the mutable offenses is barely understood in my mind? The 'criticism of women' is one in question. It's very much sexist in my opinion due its one-sided effect.
I'll try to explain this better. The Announcement itself only directed its attention to one side of political `jokes` and such. Therefore, allowing jokes of other political nature to slip past. This implies other edgy jokes directed at right wing politics are completely fine.
Nobody does want politics. But I feel like this ought to be brought up, even if it's a bit of a iffy point.
(07-21-2024, 08:55 AM)Vanilla Wrote: muting someone doesn't take away their ability to play the game, a ban is a huge thing that arguably warrants a banlog section like we have.
the reason the announce specifically addresses what it does is because it was an issue that has been happening a lot lately. they're not saying some types of discrimination are okay.
in what way do you feel it hasn't been neutral? bigotry was happening, ppl have been warned to stop. it seems so simple to me.
Take it like this, they didn't specify they would mute edgy jokes or offensive humor directed at Right wing politics and such. I'm a stickler for equal standards so. This personally offends me, even if some of you think they deserve it.
By deciding one humor type is to be stopped, all types of its brand should be ceased too. This isn't about morality but fairness.
Also, while it doesn't take their ability to play the game. It does hamper it, and again, muting is the minimum they can do. They didn't specify what exactly, which makes it even more concerning. So, of course, a channel for this is to be expected.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Vanilla - 07-21-2024
i can't stress enough that trans ppl existing is not political. treating women and lgbtqia+ people with respect and equality is not political.
RE: In Regard To The Recent Announcement - Snowman - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 09:19 AM)Vanilla Wrote: i can't stress enough that trans ppl existing is not political. treating women and lgbtqia+ people with respect and equality is not political.
If you read the post. I do, in fact, agree with you. And again, this is about fairness not about morality.