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+--- Thread: Elite Engine (/showthread.php?tid=11379)
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Elite Engine - caliaca - 08-11-2024
The patch to make it always do 35% essentially made it an actively detrimental, trap for new players potential.
At no point is this thing more damage than not using it. Before, it was more consistent damage versus burst.
Now it's just worse in every way if you do the math.
Pls revert. Thanks.
Assuming 3 starting stacks and 3 attacks per turn over 3 turns.
Non Elite Engine:
150, 0, 0 -> 50, 0, 0 > 50, 0, 0. Total increase of 250.
Elite Engine:
35, 35, 35 > 35, 0, 0 > 35, 0, 0. Total Increase 175.
This gets worse the longer the fight gets on.
RE: Elite Engine - Shujin - 08-12-2024
I think this is another Victim, of the overnerfs like Hayabusa, which primarly came from the power of Multiplicator stacking, such as old Holy.
With Holy now in the state it is, it should be buffed again.
RE: Elite Engine - Snake - 08-13-2024
I think this could be reverted, but the percentage reduced a little.
RE: Elite Engine - caliaca - 08-13-2024
(08-13-2024, 02:34 AM)Snake Wrote: I think this could be reverted, but the percentage reduced a little.
Really no need. Even straight reverted it's a sidegrade.
RE: Elite Engine - Autumn - 08-13-2024
I don't think Elite Engine should be a straight upgrade personally, just a different way to use it as it was originally intended, so aiming to make it a sidegrade is actually fairly ideal. In it's current state it's definitely weaker than regular excel charges and is a straight downgrade, yes.
If it's going to remain the way it is then it should be evened out entirely, doing 50% damage instead of 35%, that way it's more appealing to builds that would rather unleash multiple strong attacks in a round (such as with AoEs like Sidecut) than banking it all on one big ol' EI. (I could forsee some troubles though in maintaining your excel charge stacks but this was always an issue Elite Engine faced)
I was under the impression that it was doing 35% per stack and thought it would eventually beat regular Excel (eventually), but it seems I completely forgot about the elite engine change. Though I also agree with Kunai, a straight up revert could just be better cause eventually it would beat regular excel weapon in an extended fight anyway.
RE: Elite Engine - Shujin - 08-13-2024
Is it that much of an issue? I admit I haven't played too much with elite engine, but I always assumed the intended way of using it, was to swap around all charges and one charge use, based on how you fight, as you mentioned one charge for smaller attacks and all charges for stronger ones.
I think by that nature it would kinda even out or even make all charges stronger cause they operate when they do, on a higher base power? I don't know, that just my theory without extensively testing it. Also armor reduction, since more attacks with on charge. I think it would even out.
RE: Elite Engine - Slydria - 08-14-2024
I agree that Elite Engine is not worth using in it's current state but I don't think it can go back to how it was either.
Exponential scaling with multipliers aside (they're not so easy to obtain these days anyway), the issue I see is mostly how you can just keep yourself sitting on Lv3.
For instance, let's say I reach Lv3 and hit you, that'd be a roughly doubled damage hit. Now I'm Lv2. Instead of striking again for 70%, I could instead throw in non-excel skills for the other actions. Then, I could easily return to LV3 thanks to the Conversion Gloves + Shock Collar combo and basically keep doing that each round.
In a vacuum, it doesn't seem like a big deal but because there are ways to build up charges that aren't costly, it can become a problem.
RE: Elite Engine - Lolzytripd - 08-14-2024
I think it would be fine doing 50% damage bonus, each strike, reducing the lvl when consumed.
at the moment Elite engine charges are all consumed on an excel crash
RE: Elite Engine - caliaca - 08-14-2024
(08-14-2024, 02:33 AM)Slydria Wrote: I agree that Elite Engine is not worth using in it's current state but I don't think it can go back to how it was either.
Exponential scaling with multipliers aside (they're not so easy to obtain these days anyway), the issue I see is mostly how you can just keep yourself sitting on Lv3.
For instance, let's say I reach Lv3 and hit you, that'd be a roughly doubled damage hit. Now I'm Lv2. Instead of striking again for 70%, I could instead throw in non-excel skills for the other actions. Then, I could easily return to LV3 thanks to the Conversion Gloves + Shock Collar combo and basically keep doing that each round.
In a vacuum, it doesn't seem like a big deal but because there are ways to build up charges that aren't costly, it can become a problem.
This kinda leaves out opportunity cost. By not doing 3 basics, or as many you can per turn, as an excel player; you're losing out on a lot of damage. Your guile and luck invest are not going to be used during these cases ans you're down a lot of stats. Doing this in pvp will have you fall behind very quickly.
RE: Elite Engine - Poruku - 08-15-2024
I think it was a little too good for sure. But the current nerf doesn't make sense mathematically, it should at least be 50% bonus damage. Then it would at least have the advantage of being more consistent but with less damage spike. But I think it would be fine if it was like 25% per or something.
And yeah it's true that doing 3 basics is probably more damage, but that's for a different kind of build. For instance an excel rifle build might wanna make one headshot special attack and then do something else. An excel axe bk might want to just do a big checkmate and might not have much guile, focusing on defenses while still having strong damage thanks to excel.
I think 105% was just a little high, but around 75% is probably fine due to the opportunity cost. Problem is that basic excel is already really powerful so it's hard to justify going too much closer to 50%