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Chimera and Racist Items - Latto - 08-29-2024
Can items/effects that affect X monster race be toned down against players? A lot of them were clearly designed for being used in PvE against monsters but still have their full effect on Chimeras.
Examples include:
Fated Enemy's 10% Extra Damage
Firefoe Shield Plus' 15% Damage Reduction
Sharkfang Necklace working double time for the 30% Damage Reduction against Fish and Shark enemies
Holy Sword's Critical Rate and Damage Boost
Antithesis' Damage Boost
The ones above don't concern me that much due to how niche they are (except maybe Fated Enemy since everyone can have that on all the time) but there is one that I consider the most egregious because of how popular it is as an item:
Jade Insect Whistle being able to affect insect allies.
I don't think either of the whistle's effects should work on players due to them being either an easily applied massive permanent buff (+33 stats across the board forever from encourage)/or debuff (confused forever).
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - MegaBlues - 08-29-2024
I also think that attune grudge, and maybe black souls, should be tweaked. Amalgama being a better Possession punisher than Reapers are is a little silly to me.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - caliaca - 08-29-2024
AFAIk the last time this came up Sharkfang didn't work on players but I could be wrong.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Miller - 08-29-2024
I remember testing this a while ago for the damage reduction and it didn't do anything to players with other races.
Worth another test I suppose.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Autumn - 08-29-2024
some of them don't work yeah but it needs extensive testing to find out exactly what, I imagine something like a firefoe shield might count, either way, if they didn't count before, they should count at much less effectiveness, there's more than just being racist to Chimera, I think that there is serious merit to a build centered around making people plants, and using a Plantfoe Shield+ to try and wall them out with, and if that isn't the coolest shit I don't know what is.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Miller - 08-29-2024
(08-29-2024, 05:58 AM)Miller Wrote: I remember testing this a while ago for the damage reduction and it didn't do anything to players with other races.
Worth another test I suppose.
With Sharkfang
So it seems I was either full of shit back then or this has changed since the last time I tested it but! It seems like anti-racial items indeed work on players and can stack. This makes Sharkfang Necklace 27.75% DR on its own against Chimeras that happened to take too many snacks due to the fact it works against fish and shark both.
At the very least, this should be changed so it can't be stacked.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Rendar - 08-29-2024
For people able to 'adapt' to their surroundings... Someone equipping a sharkfang necklace and getting 27.5% DR against them is both hillarious. And sad.
Sharkfang Necklace (15+15% DR)
Firefoe+ shield (15% DR)
Fireblood fated Enemy (10% FREE damage!)
Sea Hunter (10% DR, 10% Damage. MIGHT be double, or even tripled versus Chimera????) (I don't want to test this. I know it'll make me depressed)
If they decide they wanted to wear Chimera Bands. Then you get Sea Hunter again if they're also a ranger/aq innovator.
I'm not saying that turning enemies into plant enemies for DR ain't cool. But sacrificing one accessory for massive DR is...... Silly.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Latto - 08-29-2024
I don't really have an issue with plantfoe shield combined with cherry blossom shenanigans and what not since that needs a pretty dedicated build for it to work and works on everyone that gets hit with it.
The things I do have a problem with is everyone being able to grab Fated Foe against Chimeras for the free 10% damage permanently at the cost of a legend ink or being able to permaconfuse them by running arguably the best instrument in the game and simply hitting your songs with no downsides or further input (same thing with the Encourage portion giving +3 to all stats to them for next to no effort- both of which are huge effects which is why I don't think Jade Insect Whistle should affect players at all in general). Being able to then STACK all of these bonuses on top of each other depending on class combinations and what not when just one of these is already a huge boon becomes an even larger problem.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Autumn - 08-29-2024
(08-29-2024, 08:54 AM)Latto Wrote: I don't really have an issue with plantfoe shield combined with cherry blossom shenanigans and what not since that needs a pretty dedicated build for it to work and works on everyone that gets hit with it.
The things I do have a problem with is everyone being able to grab Fated Foe against Chimeras for the free 10% damage permanently at the cost of a legend ink or being able to permaconfuse them by running arguably the best instrument in the game and simply hitting your songs with no downsides or further input (same thing with the Encourage portion giving +3 to all stats to them for next to no effort- both of which are huge effects which is why I don't think Jade Insect Whistle should affect players at all in general). Being able to then STACK all of these bonuses on top of each other depending on class combinations and what not when just one of these is already a huge boon becomes an even larger problem.
I totally get it, like I said most of these effects should have way lower effectiveness or even no effectiveness vs players like you said. Miller's post proves that what once didn't work now works and the implications of that are much much more than what I was expecting in my first post too.
RE: Chimera and Racist Items - Rendar - 08-29-2024
Did a quick check with Miller.
Aquamancer is a 10% Damage Amp (both ways)
Same for Ranger. 1.1 damage amp doing damage to. 0.9 damage amp taking damage from.
Which is arguably way stronger than just 10% DR or 10% extra damage.