+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: i like grand summoner (/showthread.php?tid=11489)
i like grand summoner - Entropy - 10-10-2024
first things first kill double turning and like 90% of the hatred for the class is gone.
With that out of the way, I like GS! I think summoners in games are fun, I love minion types, and I think the versatility of youkai having niche passives (as summons) to fight back a variety of opponents is really cool! My favorite thing to do in this game is position Drowned Woman so that people can't AOE me without losing momentum, or walking Wind Elemental into gust traps.
Installing for elemental immunities is kind of lame but it looks like we're moving away from that with every youkai rework so that won't be necessarily the topic here.
-
GS is not a weak class. It is however, an outdated one. Most of it's class power budget is in Chain Unsummon, which recently got gutted (as it fucking deserves), but almost the entire rest of the class feels dated. I am not insisting that GS is weak in any way- Youkai are strong, even in the current sphere where they're arguably at their weakest.
However, I think shapeshifter is better at the whole "having youkai on the field and commanding them" bit than GS. It feels like GS' entire class identity hinges on its ability to get 4 youkai out in a turn instead of 2, and literally nothing else.
Here's my list:
YOUKAI TAMER: +25 power to enemies with a Youkai race sounds really cool, and would be incredibly fun to play around now that there's a lot of new ways to play around that, except- It only works on basic hits. Leaving this passive to languish in the realm of weird 80 apt builds and awkward MG setups. If it just worked in general, I think it'd be kind of neat.
SPIRIT WELL: 5 SP for +18 FP. This is the most useless stat passive in the game. I have no idea why you'd ever take this unless you were just autopiloting clicking all the innates while filling out a class.
MISTY DIMENSION: I kindly request someone replying to this find me a single use for this passive. I guess a twin dancing ST/GS would run it for like...sneak attack? This passive blows.
ASTRAL AEGIS: This is a glorified stat passive for +5 Def and +5 Res. While that's good and all, there is very obviously a hole here where this was once a much better skill with interesting ramifications, but was too strong and nerfed into the ground. Aegis Shift is completely pointless I have no idea why you'd spend your time pressing that button.
SOUL CHAINS/JUDGEMENT BLADE: Okay guys I know it's really cool but this combo kind of blows lets be real. More useful for punishing other summoners and people wearing beast bands than it is for it's actual intended combo. However, it's a fan favorite so w/e i'm not too broken up on it.
SPIRIT REGENERATION: don't.
-
Other passives/skills in GS that aren't listed here are, in my opinion, solid enough to merit their current state. Even if Encourage could totally be a lot cooler than just a raw stat buff.
This isn't necessarily meant to be a "WE SHOULD BUFF GS" thread, because GS isn't bad. But I want to bring attention to just how lame like 70% of this class actually is.
RE: i like grand summoner - Autumn - 10-10-2024
I do think the class kind of needs like, a pretty major scale rework, it has been effectively the same with a few buffs over time since it launched, where the only times it's class fantasy has been fulfilled successfully are during pretty heavy abuse case scenarios, like the ungodly balance of youkai pre-GR (Hi that was primarily me at that time), the double turning happening now or previously when you were just stat walling and/or killing people with chain unsummon.
I don't feel like GS has ever gotten any time in the spotlight to just simply be cool and not just abusive, with the new direction that youkai seem to be taking this is a really good start on how to make GS a lot better, the class itself needs some extensive touch ups cause as was pointed out, a lot of the skills are just not relevant to the current day and age anymore. It still needs enhancements to it's summoning capability to fully capture that Minion Army feel.
If it's slated for a rework, I am happy.
RE: i like grand summoner - Trexmaster - 10-10-2024
If you immediately unsummon your youkai you can have budget old Fade Out to cheese PvE with Misty Dimension.
The only problem is you only have one turn to do anything without aggroing mobs so you're kind of stuck doing like, rune mage to be effective with it.
Otherwise yeah GS could afford to have more of an identity now that its gross cheese (Chain Unsummon) got obliterated. It's still stuck in 2016 with the novelty of being able to dump a bunch of youkai out at once to be popped like bubble wrap.
RE: i like grand summoner - Slydria - 10-10-2024
Here's some ideas I had while I was mulling over that aren't just number adjustments.
Soul Chains - This is a neat ability. The problem I have is it works via Installing which doesn't have much focus for the class. That's fine in of itself but it means it's a bit of an odd duck in their skillset. I also think it's too slow for what it does. Here's a tweak to it:
Quote:Soul Chains (3 Ranks)
15FP, 1M, 1 Round CD
1-2 target skill. 1: Targets an enemy that isn't Installed within 5 Range and 2: Targets one of your allied Youkai within 5 Range or yourself if Installed.
Enemy target is inflicted with Soul Chains and may be inflicted with Interference for 2/3/4 Rounds. Allied Youkai is unsummoned (or uninstalled) and then cannot be summoned for the duration of Soul Chains.
(The Soul Chains effect treats that target as if they are Installed, the FP cancelling effect is now instead the Interference ailment.)
Judgement Blade - It's solid already but I think we can add a bit of functionality to make it synergize with your conventional Summoning strategies.
Quote:Judgement Blade (3 Ranks)
26/24/22FP, 3M
Targets a location within 5 Range. If location contains an enemy: Deal magical Slash Damage to them equal to 100% SWA & 100/110/120% Light ATK and deals 50% more damage if the enemy is a Youkai or Installed.
If location is unoccupied: Creates a Judgement Blade field object (Hardiness 1, 10 HP). When activated, it applies Judgement Blade's damage to all enemies in a Circle (4) area around it. Can be activated by you or your allied Youkai moving into the object's tile. If an allied Youkai does so, the situational damage bonus is applied regardless of whether the enemies are Youkai or not. After activating, the Judgement Blade is removed.
Evoke Mastery - This passive is fine, however my problem is that it's the same thing as the one Shapeshifter gets and funnily enough works better for them anyway. I'd like to propose a rework to align it more to Summoning and using Summoned Youkai (and renaming it so it's a bit more in-line for what it could do.)
Quote:Sync Mastery (3 Ranks)
Allows you to use Sync-Mind active skills while your Youkai is summoned and reduces the cost of your Youkai's Evoke spells (and yours while they are summoned) by 15/20/25%.
Misty Dimension - I understand the point of the Sneak benefit, however I have a different proposal. In my mind, Astral Aegis should be the skill that protects the Summoner (and it's easy enough to make your enemies focus your Youkai first anyway). Instead, how about it now provides a temporary protective benefit to your Youkai?
Quote:Misty Dimension (2 Ranks)
Covers your summoned Youkai in a protective mist. Increases the cost of Summoning by 5FP but when a Youkai is summoned, they gain a buff that provides +50 Evade until the start of their next turn.
At Rank 2, this skill does not take up a Skill Pool slot.
RE: i like grand summoner - Raigen.Convict - 10-13-2024
Ok the evade up suggestion by sly sounds nice actually, though sadly youkai outside of seiryuu and fairies dont have the cel to use this well. Instead I suggest it actually be 50% DR until their turn. This also means if bonder uses their skill to make them act immediately, it skips over the passive so no cheese happens. I also suggest the fp cost be upped by 10. 15 fp to summon a youkai guaranteed to be able to act is fair on a class that easily gets massive fp pools. The other ideas i love.
RE: i like grand summoner - Snake - 10-14-2024
If Grand Summoner's ever getting a rework, I'll love for it to be a massive reference to Shin Megami Tensei, and for the Summoner to be able to do more in terms of micromanaging their Youkai.