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[Toggle] Weapon Sets - Ranylyn - 11-16-2014
Introduction
It happens to every weapon user. That moment when...
- A weapon breaks and that lolsy accuracy penalty makes punching a better option.
- Your primary method of attack is rendered completely inneffective (Such as using a Narcus and suddenly Chun Install)
- Your primary method of attack is downright suicide (Forgeries, Electrojammers, Blade Barrier, Spirit Mirror possibly)
Weapon swapping mid battle has been proposed before, with the pros and cons they entailed, but what I propose is a balanced and comprehenive system inspired in part by re-playing Dragon Age Origins: Weapon Sets! In that game, you could have a secondary set of weapons on a toggle (Example: Bows changing to melee weapons, or an AW Mage pulling a staff back out when real casting is needed) and I'm adapting that for this suggestion!
What -ARE- Weapon Sets and how would they work?
A weapon set is a preset change of Main/offhand gear. For example: Your main set could be ranged, and you could toggle swap to a more close combat set at close range (Bow hit penalty, anyone? Makes sense this would be an example.) You CANNOT change just one item or the other; a change of set swaps both out.
Both sets would need to be equipped before battle. You cannot stop to fish through your items for that one perfect item to screw your opponent over mid-battle.
Changing sets would cost 3M to prevent malicious abuse. For example, a BK/Monk whose plan is to use Axe and Shield until they have enough Ki to exploit Serpent Strikes cannot simply swap to Fist/Spear to use Body of Isesip and swap back for a Mad Chop in the same turn.
As having spare gear "equipped" (Extra swords at your hips or gauntlets belted to your leg, etc) would no doubt be cumbersome, I'd be willing to suggest +5 or 10 to your current encumberance to placate those who might think the versatility is OP. However, as it's mostly non-mages who this would apply to, anyways, I personally don't see the issue.
How would you equip the second set?
We already have a toggle button for our Alias. Something similar for our equipment screen makes the most sense to me.
In battle, it could be a skill to be selected. (While we're at it, how about a submenu for all our "manouvers" like skip and kick and flee and such? Reduce some clutter.) Again, with a cost of 3M.
"I dunno, man, that seems kinda OP..."
Although I disagree with anyone who might think this is OP, here are my counterpoints for balance:
- Due to limited skill slots to outfit your character with, mix and matching many different weapons would spread you thin.
- The Momentum cost prevents malicious abuse, as in the previous example.
- Since you'd need to swap main AND glove slots, you couldn't just go "lol I have a shield/etc now" unless you had a nearly identical main weapon set twice.
- Since it ONLY applies to Main/offhand slots you can't use it to, say, cycle in a fresh spirit mirror or gear with elemental resists or such.
That seems weak for a trait point, since I have a divine weapon with ghosthands anyways. What other advantages can it bring?
- Swapping equipped gloves, like trading a nihilist for a ghosthand. Alternatively, different (Race)-foe shields.
- The visual effects on dragon weapons would only show for your equipped set, preventing PVP metagaming like "Oh, Narcus, red letter time" if swapped into mid battle.
- On the topic of elemental arms: being prepared for a wider variety of challenges. For example, having a Setsuna in reserve for undead in PVE.
- Also worth considering, rockdirt weapons against goblins can be bad if that earth effect procs, just an example... swap it out!
I'm bored of reading. Can I comment now on how stupid/genius this is, yet?
Don't worry. I'm done. Discuss, away!
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - Ryu-Kazuki - 11-16-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=435#p435 Wrote:Ranylyn » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:04 pm[/url]"]Introduction
- A weapon breaks and that lolsy accuracy penalty makes punching a better option.
Maybe if you all stopped hating Divine and love it like I do, that won't be a problem.
Though, I think it'd be a lot easier and better if we could equip items to our item belt and swap weapons for 1 or 3M like the system in SL1 (it makes Engineers a bit more useful now with their large belts) where you spent one APT for weapon swapping. And then maybe add a trait for Skilled Weapon Exchange to do so without spending M.
Or make them both two traits you need to get. Weapon Swap and Skilled Weapon Exchange.
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - Slydria - 11-16-2014
I'd still prefer the alternative idea of allowing us to put Weapons and Off-Hand Items into the Item Belt and then allowing us to switch between them during combat.
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - Rendar - 11-16-2014
So glad I'm not the only damn person replaying the games before DA:I hits. On DA2 Act 3 currently.
Anyways, I like the idea, and how it was implemented in DA: O, however in SL2 it seems like it'd be more clunky than really 'nice'.
Having weapons put on the item belt might be a better way to do it and allowing you to swap out as needed.
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - LadyLightning - 11-16-2014
Fully supported. Weapons, gloves/shields, and accessories on the item belt, please, and have it be 3M to equip one. If you equip a second item, it would cost 4M, ~regardless of the individual item~.
So!
Braver -> Aberration Spear = 3M
Blue Iron Shield -> Ghost Hands = 3+1M=4M, because you already used the 'swap equipment' action this turn.
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - iDarkCara - 11-16-2014
Item Belt would be more suggested.
Giving more use for it aside from situational items. That being said, I think a trait point would be a viable option for the cost associated. (Grant a skill to change out your weapon for another in your item belt at the cost of 3M.)
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - Grandpa - 11-20-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=445#p445 Wrote:LadyLightning » Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:44 pm[/url]"]Braver -> Aberration Spear = 3M
Blue Iron Shield -> Ghost Hands = 3+1M=4M, because you already used the 'swap equipment' action this turn.
I would like this more if it was 6 momentum to swap out a weapon. Just one. Main or subhand. I don't think we should be too prepared.
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - Ranylyn - 11-20-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=816#p816 Wrote:Grandpa » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:59 am[/url]"]I don't think we should be too prepared.
This is why I suggested preset "sets" to change, rather than simply changing from the item belt. While ideally the belt would be more effective, it could also be exploited more easily. This lets, for example, arbalests swap their bow out for more viable melee weaponry (because of the close range hit penalty and subweapon reloading) without simply standing there and getting demolished because it cost them 6M to change. It also prevents them from simply cycling through different subweapons to fire if they can't change JUST the subweapon.
Do I prefer the item belt idea? Yes. But the set idea is more "balanced." It also allows changing of gloves.
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - LadyLightning - 11-20-2014
Spending 3M to switch to a sword and 3M to swing it is just like spending
3M to move back a few tiles and 3M to shoot, except an Arbalist can deal
much more damage by shooting than they could with a sword.
Changing your subweapon would not remove the Reloading status from
the Arbalist. In fact, one could even go so far as to say the Reloading
status should prevent the Arbalist from swapping their subweapon in the
first place, since in order to put it away, you would have to reel it back
in first.
The average character gets 3 item belt slots: 2 that they start with, and
1 from the Preparation talent. Most of them run prescription hi-potion,
sal volatile, and blue potion, with some variation based on status effect
cures and whether or not one needs FP regen.
Of the few characters that invest in Packrat, there is literally nothing else
worth putting in the extra item belt slots, and Engineers simply don't put
any SP into that passive, because there's nothing to spend it on. Bombs
are ass even with the damage buff from ~that~ passive, often completely
negated by a monster's appropriate defensive stat.
This may change with the recent addition of enhancement potions, but even
so, a mage with Packrat can still run PR-Hi-Potion, Blue Potion, Sal Volatile,
Throatopener, a WIL potion, ~and~ a CEL potion! If that mage is a LB, they
don't need Throatopener or Sal Volatile, as they have spells for those things.
However, they might totally want to equip a Nihilist mid-fight if they find that
they're facing an opponent with a red letter and a circle ring.
Should an Engineer be 'that prepared' with three different guns and an array
of shields and gloves? Yes they fucking should. Engineers are ~supposed~
to have a gadget for every situation. Why shouldn't they be able to equip a
bunch of gear to their item belt for in-battle swapping?
Re: [Toggle] Weapon Sets - Mivereous - 11-20-2014
I like the Set idea proposed in the original post. Being able to swap out individual weapons sounds a bit "too prepared" to me. However I also do like the idea of it costing 6M, since you are swapping out your entire set.
And as Lady said, holy crap Engineer Tool Belt would have so much use.