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+--- Thread: Balance query singleshot debuffs (/showthread.php?tid=255)
Balance query singleshot debuffs - Lolzytripd - 11-28-2014
with this bonus debuffs get insane bonus
I'm personally of no real opinion on this either way but I'm bringing up the main issues
1) sonic shell rank3 lvl 48 hesitation 48%
2) Celsius shell charge shot , -11 base move
3) magnet shell overcharge -24 enemy cel+skill
4) bright magnet shell hit mods -60/+40
5) vamp shell bonus charge -36fp, overcharge -12 all stats.
6) increased damage on all things ( nothing too crazy chain shell only increases by 25 and 50 at charge&over)
please share how you feel about these
I ordered them in order of how OP I felt they were
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - Daisuke - 11-28-2014
I agree that some of the debuffs are pretty insane (dat sonic shell) and definitely need some tuning (perhaps moving certain effects around to overcharge) however I want to make the point that strong debuffs on 1-hit guns are a good niche for them and that theme should definitely be kept in mind when adjusting them.
Even with these buffs, they don't actually surpass multi-hit guns in terms of raw damage so having better bonuses on their shells puts them in a really nice category and gives them a different playstyle which I find really neat.
Multihit guns are all about crit, sparkdrive, and high damage potential by consistently reapply shells (so they tend to avoid overcharge)
Onehit guns are all about manually charging up, hitting you once for really good damage while applying a strong debuff, and then either charge up again, shoot you normally, or use cooldown if you overcharged to reload.
And I say manually charging up over trying to crit and spark drive because being tight on skillpoints means you might not even have it and the nature of 1 shot vs 4 shot guns in terms of crit makes it a bit unreliable which can be punishing if you rely on your charged shot effect.
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - Ranylyn - 11-28-2014
Counterarguments against nerfing single shot overcharges:
- Just look at how many SP you spend getting Charged Shot, Spark Drive, Overcharge, Single Overcharge, etc, up. Compare to, say, a double dao setup or spirit hunters. The single shot gun is still more limited in having FAR less SP (especially if using shotguns) to spend on shell effects.
- Overcharge has a 4 turn cooldown effect where you can't even use a NORMAL shell. By contrast, a 4 shot gun that crits every time (It's actually not uncommon once you level up a bit and get some crit bonuses from gear and the like) can get +35x4 damage from Chain Shell alone. That's 140 lightning damage. Per use of the attack/ parting shot commands. In addition to basic damage from normal shots. Honestly, these debuffs are still far weaker than that, but now they're more viable and fun.
It's a more tactical approach to combat, and I think it should be embraced for making overcharge not nigh useless while still making it something you don't reach for in every single battle. Yes, it might have the potential to shut some classes down a bit hard (Such as the low move of a BK vs an excel sniper's celcius shell) but they're also highly dependant on accuracy, so dodgers can really give them a hell of a time. Rock
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - Lolzytripd - 11-28-2014
the overcharges aren't really the biggest problem and sp management isn't as bad as you say, you can still max spark drive, the shotgun specialty, stand off one overcharge, and grab a handful of shells.
its either the hit bonus, or shells, and really, you can rely on another class to give you your hit bonus
Engineer/ghost/kensei/bk are the best subclasses for mg and will all give a noticeable hit increase.
Like I said the biggest offender is a 48% hesitation and -11 to move.
5 charge shot
5 overcharge
5 shotgun specialty
5 spark drive
5 one over charge
put 1-2 points in standoff
put 9-8 points in shells
heck if you really need that hit bonus you can cut it down to 4-3 shells but +25 hit isn't that big of a deal.
especially when your magnet shell is going to give you +40 to hit.
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - LadyLightning - 11-28-2014
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=1267#p1267 Wrote:Lolzytripd ยป Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:58 am[/url]"]
5 charge shot
5 shotgun specialty
5 spark drive
5 one over charge
5 parting shot
put 2 points in standoff
put 8 points in shells
~chain 1
~vamp 1
~null 1
~sonic 3
~magnet 1
~celsius 1
Proceed to dual wield an excel sniper and a shotgun, with the Sub-Attack trait
and a Sarasha Gi.
Fixed it for you. With One Overcharge providing +5 shell power to all your shells,
you're free to leave some of them at lower ranks. Chain Shell can be left at rank
1, for example, which allows for 6 shell power, or 12 damage on every shot. The
bonus effect power remains at an unchanged 12 by doing this.
You still don't want to use overcharge, because even as a finisher, two chainshells
is better than one overcharged chainshell.
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - Lolzytripd - 11-29-2014
I think overcharge is worth using in certain situtations, mainly pvp, if an enemy out cels you and you don't think you have the damage to end them, use it on a magnet shell then proceed to use the next turn where you lead to get your free hits in.
stuff like that.
with a shotgun parting shot isn't all that neccessary
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - LadyLightning - 11-29-2014
Yes it is. Trust me, it is. It's useful for momentum management,
just as much as it is for kiting.
Re: Balance query singleshot debuffs - Lolzytripd - 11-29-2014
to each their own then
still I feel there should be a cap n hesitation.