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+--- Thread: One shot overwhelm (/showthread.php?tid=2666)
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One shot overwhelm - Autumn - 05-13-2016
One overcharge has been a really strong passive for a very, very long time, I believe long ago it's intention was to make shotguns stronger, when introduced with one shot wonder, the innate, which in a sense, it really did make shotguns really fun to use, and this is balanced by a shotgun's typically low range.
And then people started rolling out excel snipers and jackhammers, with very large ranges with this passive, and that's how it is extremely overwhelming, meeting a sonic shell or celcius shell that does over half your health in damage within 7 or 8 range of any gunner.
The damage could be subsided by hitting those 2 shells or excel sniper, But multishots would suffer from that kind of change to those shells, its the utility of every single other shell as well, so instead of hitting multishots by toning down the shells, instead I believe it'd be a smart idea to hit the passive instead, while still giving the same damage to shotguns
Proposed nerf:
One Overcharge: Changed to 3 rank passive, +1/2/3 shell/bonus/high charge power, this will hit guns such as Excel sniper and jackhammer, which already have the benefit of having range and/or AoE
One Shot Wonder, +5/10/15/20/25 shotgun damage, along with +1/1/2/2/3 Shell/bonus/high charge power for shotguns specifically, this is of course balanced out by shotguns not being able to charge up, their low range, and generally low crit rates compared to sniper rifles.
Any thoughts?
Re: One shot overwhelm - Egil - 05-13-2016
If the original purpose of One Overcharge was to benefit shotguns and not make one shot weapons in general stronger, then the proposed nerf seems fair. +1
Re: One shot overwhelm - Soapy - 05-13-2016
Shotguns seem bad, but that's just because the other options for single shot guns (sniper, jackhammer) are bullshit.
Yes please.
Re: One shot overwhelm - Chaos - 05-14-2016
The purpose of One Overcharge never had to do with Shotguns in particular. It was there to give single-shot guns something to go with, while keeping them from being completely outclassed by multi-shot guns. If it had to do with Shotguns, then it would've only worked with shotguns from the get-go. (No, it didn't get any changes after implementation either)
That being said, multi-shot will not suffer from a nerf to the two shells. They're meant to be DPS, not the kind of burst that single-shot guns have. Trying to target OO just to circumvent having to nerf two shells is not that good of a reason for a nerf.
P.S. I would sooner give Shotguns a hit boost from One Shot Wonder (shotgun blasts tend to spread, which makes it harder to dodge when you're in range) than dump a bigger Shell Effect boost on them.
Re: One shot overwhelm - Autumn - 05-14-2016
It has nothing to do with a shotgun's accuracy, shotguns hit fine, they generally have low critical rates and low range, as was said.
Instead, this has to do with excel sniper and jackhammers sniping you from afar for half your healthbar, and then the person wielding them remaining completely fine because of the effects the shells carry, however, keeping the identity of a shotgunner as a really bursty type of gunner, the burst of a shotgun gunner is going to have much more limited range than the burst of an excel sniper gunner, etc. etc.
This is why the nerf has to do with the shell effects a shotgun can carry compared to a sniper set, shotguns are barely run at the moment because the other guns do their job better.
Re: One shot overwhelm - Chaos - 05-15-2016
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=13806#p13806 Wrote:Spoops » Sat May 14, 2016 5:23 pm[/url]"]It has nothing to do with a shotgun's accuracy, shotguns hit fine, they generally have low critical rates and low range, as was said.A fair point. However, I believe that this should not have to affect other 1 Round guns and/or future 1 Round gun ideas. How about either:
Instead, this has to do with excel sniper and jackhammers sniping you from afar for half your healthbar, and then the person wielding them remaining completely fine because of the effects the shells carry, however, keeping the identity of a shotgunner as a really bursty type of gunner, the burst of a shotgun gunner is going to have much more limited range than the burst of an excel sniper gunner, etc. etc.
This is why the nerf has to do with the shell effects a shotgun can carry compared to a sniper set, shotguns are barely run at the moment because the other guns do their job better.
1. Make the Cooldown effect when caused by an Excel Sniper and/or Jackhammer longer, incompatible with that one skill, or a combination thereof
2. Make shell effects take a penalty on a target more than 4~5 tiles away from the attacker
Re: One shot overwhelm - Autumn - 05-15-2016
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=13807#p13807 Wrote:Chaos » Sat May 14, 2016 5:03 pm[/url]"]"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=13806#p13806 Wrote:Spoops » Sat May 14, 2016 5:23 pm[/url]"]It has nothing to do with a shotgun's accuracy, shotguns hit fine, they generally have low critical rates and low range, as was said.A fair point. However, I believe that this should not have to affect other 1 Round guns and/or future 1 Round gun ideas. How about either:
Instead, this has to do with excel sniper and jackhammers sniping you from afar for half your healthbar, and then the person wielding them remaining completely fine because of the effects the shells carry, however, keeping the identity of a shotgunner as a really bursty type of gunner, the burst of a shotgun gunner is going to have much more limited range than the burst of an excel sniper gunner, etc. etc.
This is why the nerf has to do with the shell effects a shotgun can carry compared to a sniper set, shotguns are barely run at the moment because the other guns do their job better.
1. Make the Cooldown effect when caused by an Excel Sniper and/or Jackhammer longer, incompatible with that one skill, or a combination thereof
2. Make shell effects take a penalty on a target more than 4~5 tiles away from the attacker
I think the nerf I proposed achieves the second effect quite well, also a jackhammer's range is technically '5' but has a 5 range circle as well, effectively making it 10.
I would argue against them for simplicity's sake, I am not alone when saying that excel snipers, moonlight mercies and jackhammers have been dominating any sort of fight, it doesn't even have to be a 1vs1, in that sense, a single shot gunner in any teamfight is also a must-die or must-mirror.
Also as for the current 1 round guns that are not shotguns, that would be it, Excel Sniper, Jackhammer and Moonlight mercy, all with exceptionally large ranges.
Re: One shot overwhelm - Rendar - 05-15-2016
Just as an FYI.
The reason gunners become a "MUST DIE" is because any clumping up by the enemy team.. in any way.. will resort in a massive AoE that hits the entire enemy team with a KNOCKDOWN ontop of the huge damage from sound shell (and possibly jackhammer AoE)... This only gets worse if a person has a tactician on a team...
Also the only person I have EVER seen use a shotgun.. has been Quinn so far... Even then? It's done with a gimmick build that (also) does massive AoE knockdown and a ton of other damage from alt sources.
Shotguns are useless because longer range guns have better crit and do better damage... So yeah, plz nerf
Re: One shot overwhelm - Lolzytripd - 05-16-2016
Okay back from the eternal void to post my opinion
instead of omfg nerfzzz, why not change the effective ranges of "rifles" and the rocket launcher in question
make The rocket inaccurate in ranges 1-5 and cause self damage if its aoe hits the shooter.
make snipers unable to target enemies within 5 range except point blank range with a penalty.
Buff shotguns, make their attack range a Cone that can hit multiple enemies.
Re: One shot overwhelm - Egil - 05-16-2016
"[url=http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=13814#p13814 Wrote:Lolzytripd » Mon May 16, 2016 7:07 am[/url]"]Okay back from the eternal void to post my opinion
instead of omfg nerfzzz, why not change the effective ranges of "rifles" and the rocket launcher in question
make The rocket inaccurate in ranges 1-5 and cause self damage if its aoe hits the shooter.
make snipers unable to target enemies within 5 range except point blank range with a penalty.
Buff shotguns, make their attack range a Cone that can hit multiple enemies.
Seems legit and less 'omg guns op, pls nerf'. +1