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+----- Thread: Aptitude (/showthread.php?tid=2719)
Aptitude - Kameron8 - 06-03-2016
Aptitude is currently everyone's most valuable stat. If your class setup benefits from 5 different stats, which is roughly all of them, 40 points in aptitude will refund you the 40 points you spent by providing 8 in the stats you need. On top of that, all of your other statistics raise alongside it. I understand the goal behind aptitude was to allow people to be well rounded, but as of right now it's practically required in every build.
On that note, I think it may be worth humoring the following idea:
Remove aptitude entirely. Scale the number of stats you gain per level up to 4 to compensate for all of the free stats everyone will be missing.
This gives people the option to spread points around where they want them, but curtails the 88 points you get for dropping 40 in aptitude.
As I mentioned earlier, as far as I understand it the point of aptitude was to allow people the option to round out their strengths. That is not the identity it currently fits. It's mandatory in every single build because it's statistically efficient in any build that doesn't only care about two or three stats. We could also scale down how much the stat provides, but I imagine people would immediately feel point starved if this stat took a hit. On a final note, if Apt was removed, humans could gain the benefits of all-stat scaling through sanctity. To fit their quick to master, adaptable race identity.
Re: Aptitude - Autumn - 06-03-2016
Aptitude as it stands is just a need in every single build or you miss out on free stat points, and that's not really too good, cause one stat should not have to be a mandatory in every single build, I'd argue just removing the stat entirely is just the best idea here, given that the entire thing will only create stat stacking problems in the future, and then as said, compensate this with 4 points per level.
Re: Aptitude - Grandpa - 06-03-2016
It could be changed to affect experience gain and nothing else. Like a direct one to one of % exp increase. Works well for people that might want to LE still for whatever.
Re: Aptitude - Neus - 06-03-2016
I don't understand how removing Aptitude and adding an extra 60 points is supposed to provide variance in builds when all it does is give you enough points to soft cap more than half of the stats. Nor do I think a few days of closed beta testing is enough time to determine what is 'mandatory'.
Re: Aptitude - Autumn - 06-03-2016
40 points into aptitude is 88 skill points total, 48 if you subtract the 40 needed to slap onto Aptitude itself, the reason everyone is taking it is because we needed more stat points in the first place, 180 is too little even with aptitude, but 240 would be too much with aptitude, this is to say, removing the stat bonus from aptitude would make 240 just fair to have, but this shouldn't have to be the case.
Every build thus far has basically been, 40 aptitude to start off with, then assign the rest of the points from there, seems mandatory here, though then again it really isn't, but cutting it out puts you behind everyone, after a lot of testing with several builds on all my characters, and albeit a test, its still there, and perhaps removing the stat does seem harsh, just having it be there for EXP and Crafting EXP is good too, but maybe change it so that Aptitude is the crafting stat, crafting success rates are effected by aptitude, and double crafting success is effected by aptitude, also, every 5 or 10 aptitude is a new possible crafting level, this would not be effected by the soft cap even maybe? If you were to turn it into a non-combat stat like I am proposing.
Re: Aptitude - Kameron8 - 06-03-2016
"Neus" Wrote:I don't understand how removing Aptitude and adding an extra 60 points is supposed to provide variance in builds when all it does is give you enough points to soft cap more than half of the stats. Nor do I think a few days of closed beta testing is enough time to determine what is 'mandatory'.
You might be right on both fronts here, but at the very least the way in which aptitude (and really stats in general) interact with the soft cap is what drives this. With 40 aptitude, you can hit the soft cap in 5 stats, and approach the soft cap on a sixth. The rest of your stats bump up by a non-insignificant value. With 0 aptitude, you can hit the soft cap in 4 stats, and approach a 5th. Given that one of the stats you're soft capping in the first example is aptitude, they're essentially the same. Except, the aptitude build gets 8 into every other stat in addition to the 4.5 softcapped stats.
It may be way too early to say what's mandatory, and it may be too heavy handed to remove the stat entirely, but it is not unreasonable to say that Aptitude is mathematically more efficient than any alternative in almost every build. That alone seems like an issue to me.
Re: Aptitude - Rendar - 06-03-2016
Well. I can safely say that this is actually truth, Dev.
From the builds I've made of my characters, most of them have been, quite simply, reliant upon Aptitude. It's a stat that whilst 'overbearing' to some, is rather nice and allows for mixed builds to function properly. If only because every build in the game, requires at least every stat. Not in huge modicums, but a mage requires it.
Why? It provides 8 SKI/GUILE, which with 2 points added into each, nets them a whopping extra 4 skill slots. Strength? They have to have it so they aren't super weighed down by gear. Etcetera, etcetera. It's a stat that, functionally, mages need to survive, whilst everyone else needs it (but could live without). So I don't think "LETS JUST NERF THIS STAT" is the right way to go. Simply because that's really bad.
What there is an agreement is that Aptitude is needed for every build, though. It is a stat that if you don't raise up, you fall behind other people who do simply due to a lack of having actual points put into it. I'm not sure if I'm upset by that or not, but the general consensus is that Aptitude is good. (Not that certain other stats aren't ridiculously good. Looking at you Guile.) So, we're in a weird spot where having more than 3 is too much, but removing aptitude would just fuck everything over.
I'm not going to bother to even fathom how we'd get it changed to make it 'better'... However for right now, Aptitude is something that everyone should either get innately, or needs to be checked out in and of itself.
Re: Aptitude - Chaos - 06-03-2016
Regardless of stats per level or whatnot, Aptitude is currently the sole stat that's shaping the value of points. I think just about everyone's repeated so far that Aptitude is like Tactician and/or Style Blending; you have absolutely no reason not to get it, and not picking it up will only punish you in the end. (Sure, you can argue that builds reliant on hardcapping mostly avoid APT, but they have huge holes in their designs by nature)
As far as approaching this point goes, I personally think that just taking Kameron's suggestion-- throwing Aptitude out entirely and upping stats per level to compensate-- would be the cleanest method, especially when it will just allow you to softcap... what, about the same, maybe one more stat than what APT currently allows? Really, the only true loss in the long run would be a stat that boosts EXP gains.
If not that, then limit APT's stat boosts. Say, +1 per 10 scaled APT, or +1 per 8 scaled APT.