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+--- Thread: Skill Slots Suggestion (/showthread.php?tid=286)
Skill Slots Suggestion - RoboCat - 12-02-2014
I think that having the skill slots based on will along with the newer level based system is a little over the top.
First off, will based classes get -everything- for -every- situation. They get attacks for all the elements. If you use both the classes, you'll have the diversity to not care about any situation in pvp at-all. It makes events between the players that result in fighting feel senseless and one-sided. I don't see why if I'm a marital artist, that I cannot use all of my martial arts in a fight. It's part of a series of problems relating to the game's balance and I think it can be easily fixed. Here's my suggestion to make battle, pvp and pve more easy and balanced in terms of what a character can and cannot do in a battle-wise situation.
The current skillslot system is wil/10 + 5 + lv/10
My suggested skillslot calculation is Highest Base Stat/10+ 5 + lv/10
I think the Will stat should be completely removed from the equation.
If anything was unclear, please let me know. EDIT:Fixed the suggestion. I had forgot to put the +5 in there.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-02-2014
I don't see how the system is currently a problem. It's definitely not a balancing issue. All it does is allow for more skills that can be utilized during combat.
WIL based classes do not get everything, there's little to no Huggessoan damage spells, or Mercalan (minus Holy Arrow), regardless of what class combo I'm using, I always care about my situation in PvP or PvE, having more skills doesn't make me suddenly not care about the fact I can still get my ass kicked. Along with that, they have almost 0 defensive skills to protect themselves.
And logically, I don't see how STR or some stats should be related to how many skill slots you have. At least it's not like the old system where you had a max of 5 with no if ands or butts.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - RoboCat - 12-02-2014
Alright. I only suggested highest stat because not every build revolves around Will. Also, you say you dont see how str can get you extra skill slots, without a clear reason as to why Will, the only stat to boost skill slots would either. I see Will the same way and suggested the highest stat as a fair alternative.
Also, as a guy who has plenty of mage characters, I think it's safe to say that it is not hard to find a person's elemental weakness. That along with the fact that the only real defense against magic attacks is sub-par where it matters makes those extra skillslots lengthen the gap in diversity and general battle accessibility.
The idea I suggested would level the playing field. The only difference would be that the amount of skill slots possible would be high for everyone and not just mages.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - Grandpa - 12-02-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=1441#p1441 Wrote:Ryu-Kazuki » Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:01 am[/url]"]WIL based classes do not get everything, there's little to no Huggessoan damage spells, or Mercalan (minus Holy Arrow), regardless of what class combo I'm using, I always care about my situation in PvP or PvE, having more skills doesn't make me suddenly not care about the fact I can still get my ass kicked. Along with that, they have almost 0 defensive skills to protect themselves.
And logically, I don't see how STR or some stats should be related to how many skill slots you have. At least it's not like the old system where you had a max of 5 with no if ands or butts.
Altera. Kel. Holy Arrow. Literally every curate and lantern bearer attack spell. They have a spell for almost every element. Will is too strong. And getting will as anything but a magic class is a bit too difficult. More skills may mean you still get your ass kicked, but generally people are more prepared when they have more skills. Your case isn't everyone else's case.
Also, if you're trying to bring logic into this, why would high wil even add more skill slots? It isn't your intelligence. It isn't your anything. "Willpower" shouldn't make you be able to equip more skills any more than any other stat.
Anyways, I like this suggestion. It's better than saying "(specific stat) should do it instead of will". Makes things a bit more balanced for non-mages.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - Rendar - 12-02-2014
Let's use something like. (Highest Base Stat)/15+5+Level/10. This way it hits mages and lowers some of their "I HAVE EVERY ELEMENT EVER HAHAHAHAHA" while also buffing non-will users into decent viability. I know that Quinn, at 77 base celerity, would have... 5+5+6 skill slots instead of 7+5+6.
Heck, you could even use (Highest Base Stat)/20+5+Level/10. That still gives, at least, 11 skill slots at level 60. With the possibility of at most, 4 more. At worst, 1 more.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - RoboCat - 12-02-2014
AS I planned it out, I saw the problem with the original idea I had which was highest stat/15. Then I realized that that would just end in a mage nerf.
The suggestion is about bringing the other class options up to the level of diversity will-based classes have, not about gimping the will based classes a bit.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - Rendar - 12-02-2014
As you said, Mages can get every element for every. single. situation. There have to be some times where the mage just flat out doesn't come prepared, otherwise what's the point of having skill slots. You should just go "Well I might as well take all of my offensive spells and squeeze in graft."
They need to be taken just a .slight. peg. Just slightly. I know that with 12 skill slots I can almost manage to set up my stuff on Quinn, and would only need like. 2 more skill slots. 3 being optimal. They really, really, don't need 18 skill slots.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-02-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=1458#p1458 Wrote:Rendar » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:02 am[/url]"]As you said, Mages can get every element for every. single. situation. There have to be some times where the mage just flat out doesn't come prepared, otherwise what's the point of having skill slots. You should just go "Well I might as well take all of my offensive spells and squeeze in graft."
They need to be taken just a .slight. peg. Just slightly. I know that with 12 skill slots I can almost manage to set up my stuff on Quinn, and would only need like. 2 more skill slots. 3 being optimal. They really, really, don't need 18 skill slots.
Mages may have access to every element, but it doesn't mean they can always use them. Just because you're an Evoker means your an LB, or vice versa. On top of that, Evokers nearly require HSDW, Charge Mind, or some other method of skill stacking in order to effectively combat. You can't just slap on every element you want an expect to get good results. The reason those skills along with slots being allowed like that in the first place was because of Mage's current problem with survivability in combat. It's do or die.
You may only need 12, or somewhat, but not everyone does, and most Evoker skills are equipped skills, meaning they require slots in order to add them. I can slap on Innate SP all day but if I have one spell that people can easily resist, why even bother fighting? I need 15 slots to maintain a decent build for combat, just to have 3, only 3 elements to use. Only one of them is an AoE and it's limited range. All of them are Invocations, which means I require HSDW.
My build isn't your build, just because you focus around one style in combat doesn't mean anybody else does nor should they have to. Anyway, I'm not going to keep ranting and arguing over the matter. I've been up all night and I'm straining myself to reset my internal clock.
As for the initial suggestion, while I don't agree with it, because my other non-mage builds do fine without the slots, let alone barely have enough SP to even get more skills, it's a better alternative than shafting people who actually need the slots because you think they're OP in combat. So I can at least say it has my support in that manner.Other than that? I don't see a need for change, regardless of argument.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - Soapy - 12-02-2014
The thing about this is that most classes (with an actual good build, mind you) tend to revolve around innates, since they primarily use basic attacks (or a skill that counts as one), which mages don't have.
Re: Skill Slots Suggestion - LadyLightning - 12-02-2014
Technically, with Charge Mind lasting 3 extra rounds, you
~don't~ actually need HSDW. You'd be doing the following:
Turn 1: Charge Mind
Turn 2: Invoke
Turn 3: Blink -> Cast your Invocation.
whereas with HSDW, you would do this:
Turn 1: Move -> HSDW
Turn 2: Charge Mind
Turn 3: Invoke -> Cast your Invocation
Either way, you've spent 3 turns for that spell. With HSDW,
sure you don't get the chance to be interrupted, but let's
face it, there isn't much chance for interruption anyway.
Without HSDW, however, you've shifted your movement to
the moment before you release your Invocation, making it
a lot harder for them to run from it. Between Blink and the
range of Vydel, you can hit almost any square on the map.
At this point you've got the following skills set:
3 invocations
Charge Mind
Blink
Auto-Enchant
1 Enchant spell
Pure Power
That's 8 skill slots, three of which are optional, as some
people don't like to enchant, and some people prefer item
slots over +5 spell power.
Anyway, don't get me wrong -- I don't think that skill slots
should not be based on WIL. However, I ~do~ think that
they should also be based on SKI, or perhaps the higher
of either your SKI or WIL.