+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Offensive Spells (/showthread.php?tid=2984)
Pages:
1
2
Offensive Spells - Chaos - 07-12-2016
(WARNING: Long post ahead)
As most people can attest to in post-Reckoning SL2, there are quite a few issues with offensive spells in general:
1. Most offensive spells fall flat in damage, due to often having to deal with 2 percentile reductions and Magic Armor.... and that's not including all the class skills and equipment properties that combat spells/magic damage, either.
2. Most offensive spells have very lackluster scaling boosts from higher ranks; due to the more linear scaling of Elemental ATK, all but a very small amount of offensive spells see little to no difference in damage.
3. While not exactly an issue that came with the Reckoning, a lot of mage's spells are forgettable; once Evoker or Hexer becomes available, Mage's offensive spells (Astral Belt included) see no use beyond filling a slot or two for grinding.
While I do recognize that elemental focus is an intended factor for spells (and needed to keep characters from becoming very solid at every spell by only pumping up WIL), we are currently seeing a meta where even element-focused nuke mages are near-impossible to achieve anything with. This is a issue observed and recognized by many within the community, from the beta server to today and beyond. However, no one has come up with a solid solution to pitch.
For these reasons, I would like to suggest a series of changes and buffs to offensive spells in general, in order to bring them more in-line with the current meta and entice their use (and provide combinations for that purpose) to the playerbase once more. Note that I am not looking to make these spells the next big thing, so much as give them bumps (however large or small they might be) to make them relevant and open up further uses as necessary.
(NOTE: Any properties of a spell not included are to remain the same)
The suggested changes are as follows:
MAGE
Quote:Fir:
Fire ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Adjusted Scaled ATK.
Vyd:
Wind ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-With Talvyd Status: Chance to inflict Lingering Damage LV (Rank*2) for 3 Rounds
REASON: Adjust Scaled ATK, gave weight to Talvyd use.
Rye:
Lightning ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-With Redgull Status: Damages target and all enemies within (Redgull Rank) tiles of target
REASON: Adjust Scaled ATK, gave weight to Redgull use.
Isendo:
Earth ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Adjust Scaled ATK.
Miu:
Ice ATK: 80% -> 85% -> 90% -> 95% -> 100%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-With Kraken Status: Chance to lower target move by 2 for 2 Rounds.
REASON: Placed damage scaling above Miu's, gave weight to Kraken use.
Explosion:
Fire ATK: 100% -> 120% -> 140% -> 160% -> 180%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-With Nerhaven Status: +60% Fire ATK
-If area of effect is resized, rune takes an extra round to detonate
REASON: Major damage buff due to delayed damage, gave weight to Nerhaven use.
Air Pressure:
Wind ATK: 75% -> 80% -> 85% -> 90% -> 95%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Given a little more firepower.
Stone Dragon:
Earth ATK: 80% -> 90% -> 100% -> 110% -> 120%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-With Galren Status: +4 Max Distance
-Astral Belt gives +(DEF Bonus*2) damage
REASON: Damage buff to fit with single-target focus, gave weight to Galren use, made Astral Belt synergy more desirable.
Famiuga:
Ice ATK: 75% -> 80% -> 85% -> 90% -> 95%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-With Kraken Status: Chance to inflict Frostbite LV (Rank*2) for 3 Rounds
REASON: Given a lttle more firepower, gave weight to Kraken use.
EVOKER
Quote:Sear:
Fire ATK: 30% -> 45% -> 60% -> 75% -> 90%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Nerhaven Status: Cinders deal (30% Fire ATK) fire damage when stepped on
REASON: Adjusted to fit with Scaled ATK standard, given a little more firepower, gave weight to Nerhaven use.
Libegrande:
Ice ATK: 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130% -> 140%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Kraken Status: +4 Line
REASON: Pure damage spell, had the same damage rate as Miu with higher costs, gave weight to Kraken use.
Magaisendo:
Earth ATK: 20% -> 35% -> 50% -> 65% -> 80%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Galren Status: Enemies beyond 6 Range take 10% less damage per additional tile, to a minimum of 50% damage.
REASON: Adjusted to fit with Scaled ATK standard, gave weight to Galren use.
Wind Slasher:
Wind ATK: 90% -> 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Talvyd Status: 3 tiles wide
REASON: Pure damage spell, had the same damage rate as Vyd with higher costs, gave weight to Talvyd use.
Ryemei:
Lightning ATK: 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130% -> 140%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Redgull Status: (Rank*3)% to apply Vorpal effect on Critical
REASON: Pure damage spell, had the same damage rate as Rye with higher costs, gave weight to Redgull use.
Exgalfa:
Fire ATK: 100% -> 120% -> 140% -> 160% -> 180%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Nerhaven Status: +4 Fireballs (replaces current +2 Fireballs effect)
REASON: Pure damage spell, gave more weight to Nerhaven use.
Intensify Cold:
Ice ATK: 100% -> 120% -> 140% -> 160% -> 180%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Kraken Status: Applies Ice Weakness before damage
REASON: Pure damage spell, gave weight to Kraken use.
Isenshi:
Earth ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Galren Status: All enemies within 6 Range (Circle) are pulled 2 tiles towards the caster before damage
REASON: Adjusted to fit with Scaled ATK standard, gave weight to Galren use.
Vydel:
Wind ATK: 100% -> 120% -> 140% -> 160% -> 180%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Talvyd Status: 5 tiles wide, map-wide length
REASON: Pure damage spell, gave weight to Talvyd use.
Overload:
Lightning ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
-With Redgull Status: Bonus damage per stat boost set to Rank
REASON: Adjusted to fit with Scaled ATK standard, gave weight to Redgull use.
Elemental Overtime:
ADDED EFFECT: With Charge Mind status and an Enchant Status, +5 (Enchant element) ATK
REASON: A small idea to give more weight to Elemental Overtime use. Might be better on an enchant-based class instead.
HEXER
Quote:Hexer Infliction Spells
Elemental ATKs: (No changes)
Scaled ATKs: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Secondary effects are powerful enough to warrant only a small Scaled ATK boost
Eternal Darkness:
FP Cost: 40 -> 38 -> 36 -> 34 -> 32
Dark ATK: 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130% -> 140%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Secondary effect does not justify 50~40 FP cost and is conditional enough to warrant a damage boost
CURATE
Quote:Holy Arrow:
FP Cost: 8 -> 10 -> 12 -> 15 -> 18
Light ATK: 90% -> 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Pure damage spell, was completely outclassed by any given offensive spell from Priest.
Kel:
Water ATK: 90% -> 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Pure damage spell, was completely outclassed by Gentle Torrent, which costs less, hits harder and goes at a longer range.
PRIEST
Quote:Gentle Torrent:
Water ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
-At Rank 3, projectile does not stop on hitting an enemy
-At Rank 5, +1 Negative status duration reduction
-With 2~3 Round Cooldown, reduce M cost to 3M
REASON: With Kel no longer lagging behind on damage, can be used more for support & multi-hit.
Needle:
-Replace static damage with Light ATK
Light ATK: 10% -> 20% -> 30% -> 40% -> 50%
-Needle Explosion effects use (20*Rank)% Light ATK
-With 2~3 Round Cooldown, reduce M cost to 3M
REASON: Thanks to RES now factoring in, Needle needs a more fitting damage boost. Secondary effect was extremely minimal as well, due HP taking on larger numbers than before, and needed a better boost.
Shine Ray:
FP Cost: 23 -> 26 -> 29 -> 32 -> 35
Light ATK: (No changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Power & Effect did not justify a 40~50 FP cost.
Holy Spark
Light/Lightning ATK: 70% -> 80% -> 90% -> 100% -> 110%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Pure damage spell, no secondary effects to justify Hexer spell scaling.
Divine Shower
Light ATK: 100% -> 125% -> 150% -> 175% -> 200%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
REASON: Pure damage spell (until rank 5), HSDW can't speed this one up.
Piety
EFFECT CHANGED TO: +(Rank*2) Light ATK
REASON: Staff Mastery provides tremendous boosts to FAI and WIL already.
LANTERN BEARER
Quote:Salamander/Fenrir/Typhur/Golem/Altera/Phoenix
(Element) ATK: 90% -> 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
REASON: Damage boosts are leveled out by distance modifiers.
Focused Beam
(Lantern's Flame Element) ATK: 110% -> 120% -> 130% -> 140% -> 150%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 105% -> 110% -> 115% -> 120%
REASON: Pure damage spell.
VOID ASSASSIN
Quote:Detogate:
Dark ATK: 110% -> 125% -> 140% -> 155% -> 170%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: While setup justifies solid damage, warp effect is a random but solid secondary effect; damage boost is minimal to reflect this.
Black Bolt:
Dark ATK: 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130% -> 140%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Secondary effects are powerful; damage boost is minimal to reflect this.
GHOST
Quote:Ghostwind:
Wind/Dark ATK: (No Changes)
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Adjusted Scaled ATK; elemental ATKs fit with secondary effects.
GRAND SUMMONER
Quote:Judgment Blade
Light ATK: 90% -> 100% -> 110% -> 120% -> 130%
Scaled ATK: 100% -> 100% -> 105% -> 105% -> 110%
REASON: Pure damage spell.
Re: Offensive Spells - Poptartu - 07-12-2016
I think this is really needed, and these changes seem like a fine place to start. Hopefully this would be enough to bring spellcasting back to where it feels good again.
Re: Offensive Spells - Egil - 07-12-2016
Damn. I went into this topic expecting Hexer buffs and, thus, raw salt from me, but I really don't have anything to add beyond that Lantern Bearer remains underpowered even with these changes, since their issue isn't so much their spells but the utility of their passives and innates- which, of course, is off topic but the touch up to their spells doesn't accomplish much.
Otherwise, I love this topic. +1
Re: Offensive Spells - Autumn - 07-12-2016
It's a nice start, mage got hit really hard by the great reckoning, and I firmly believe the classes involved with being a mage could use a step up to catch up with everything melee peeps got recently with their base class updates.
Re: Offensive Spells - Snake - 07-12-2016
These scalings seems legit, comparing to melee. They could have room to be more 'op' just for the fact their use can be nullified by a simple silence. Anyway, good one on that, tipping cardboard box to Chaos on this one. +1
Re: Offensive Spells - MegaBlues - 07-12-2016
I think this is a good start, but for reasons listed and others, I think that magic, in general, should have higher scaling than the average melee skill does.
Also, I don't see any changes to Charge Mind here, and it sorely needs one.
Re: Offensive Spells - Rendar - 07-12-2016
I'd like to see Lantern Bearer get a major overhaul alongside this.
They're about as thirsty for skillpoints as Black Knights, and are severely thirsty for something else besides PURE POWER in and of itself. I'd love to see Lantern Bearer Scaling scale off of LIGHT attack since.. well... It's light. Coming from a lantern.
Having them scale off of HALF ELEMENTAL TYPE/ HALF LIGHT DAMAGE + WPN SCALING would make their damage much, MUCH better for anyone to use them.
But they need a new change overall to simply be less SP intensive where you get 2-3 of their spells, then have to get innates/passives to make it worthwhile...
Spoops has the details we worked out on that for another day but...
I agree with pretty much everything on here. Please buff mages. PLEASE
Re: Offensive Spells - Fern - 07-13-2016
Oh yes, please make this a thing. You most likely won't regret it. Besides, Evoker the 'magic nuke' class has been a tad lackluster when it comes to attack power for the most part lately, this would alleviate that.
Re: Offensive Spells - Exxy - 07-13-2016
[strike]I'm somehow left with the impression that non-invocations will be left in the front seat following this but considering I'm not heavily focused on learning magic-related meta overnight: it's hard for me to say. We'll see, I guess. Totally not game-breaking. *cough*[/strike]
Re: Offensive Spells - Flamesword1 - 07-13-2016
+1