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+--- Thread: Cobra Dancing (/showthread.php?tid=3009)
Cobra Dancing - Rendar - 07-16-2016
As it is right now, Cobra is one of the strongest innate abilities in the game. Not only does it give tons of free mobility options that cost next to nothing (or actually nothing), but they also get a healthy amount of damage mitigation that is overwhelmingly broken against certain classes that make it a super hard counter to everything. The only thing it isn't really a hard counter to is certain things like multi-hitters, or even a mage.
While the stance itself has a few counters (Blind, Teleport moves, Knockdown) these are counters to it's dodging aspect. This doesn't deal with it's RATHER OBSCENE mobility the class has. Here are a few proposed changes and I'll explain why below in quotes.
PROPOSED CHANGE LIST
Leaping Lizard costs 3 Momentum when no enemy is adjacent. 1 Momentum if you're adjacent to an enemy.
Quote:As a whole, this skill isn't horrendously broken except that it provides certain things get obscenely weird. It makes getting close to a Cobra bad, and staying away bad. There isn't anything inherently bad with it, except it allows for being able to flee anytime you are anywhere near the border of a map... and by anywhere, I mean within 7-8 tiles of it. This will make it so that a Leaping Lizard/Burn Up (skyburn)/Gain Air > Winged Serpent costs 2m. Which means it still is *basically* crane hop but longer range, and combos into itself as a class. It also gives a sort of nerf to auto-hits that was much needed.
Winged Serpent costs 1 momentum to use (without repeat action), and it's range is decreased from 7 or 8 max to 6.
----The 1 Momentum Cost is negated if used in Conjuction with Leaping Lizard.
Quote:This one was iffy. Winged Serpent on it's own was devastating. However comboing it with other things made it somewhat silly. My initial suggestion was just going to have things that make you airborne cost 2m, but it'd be bad for development to their class/race as a whole. So I decided that instead of making them cost. Make Winged Serpent cost 1M. This will make a full Leaping Lizard > winged Serpent cost 2M or 4M. Both of which work extremely well if the class gets a critical, they can have a full 6m to do their stuff.
Sub-class Demon Hunter loses ONE of it's dodges from Cobra.
Quote:Should be fairly straightforward. One of the most overpowering things about this class is you can just sub-class it and get a ton of benefits. We nerfed Matador when it was overperforming in the subclass. Cobra should be getting the same treatment.
If you have the GUARDING status or GUARD BREAK, you cannot Cobra Dodge.
Quote:Cobra is about being light on your feet to dance around blows. Before, we made GUARDING make you lose evasion% equal to your guard level. This is just something that needs to come up again as a whole. Whether it's in the form of LVL*3% chance to fail, or just utterly negating the ability to cobra-dodge whilst bracing for a hit. I'm indifferent. It needs to change, badly.
Please read over this and post thoughts below. Thanks.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Egil - 07-16-2016
+1
Re: Cobra Dancing - Kameron8 - 07-16-2016
"Rendar" Wrote:Winged Serpent costs 1 momentum to use, and it's range is decreased from 7 or 8 max to 6.
Quote:This one was iffy. Winged Serpent on it's own was devastating. However comboing it with other things made it somewhat silly. My initial suggestion was just going to have things that make you airborne cost 2m, but it'd be bad for development to their class/race as a whole. So I decided that instead of making them cost. Make Winged Serpent cost 1M. This will make a full Leaping Lizard > winged Serpent cost 2M or 4M. Both of which work extremely well if the class gets a critical, they can have a full 6m to do their stuff.
I could agree with most of the changes here except this one. Leaping Lizard could cost 1, but Winged Serpent should have 0 Cost if Leaping Lizard is used. Even though I fundamentally disagree with how Cobra functions, this quoted change prunes way too much power from the tree. The reason I say 'if Leaping Lizard is used' is because of the infamous Burn Up -> Winged Serpent combination that vexes almost everyone. Cutting that combination and forcing main class on people to retain the insane passives seems fine with me. However, it would be nice to have Danger Sense stop working when hit with a knockdown again, as was discussed in this thread.
I'll also bring up one more point as to why changing Cobra might be necessary. Standalone, it's a powerful mobility setup that gives you very powerful innate defensive options. However, because of how Demon Hunter works, you always have the SP to have one other tree to utilize. This means you will have the offensive bonus from Reaver or the defensive -- and offensive, let's just be honest -- power of Matador. The 'everything goes great with Cobra' mentality is prevalent.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Rendar - 07-16-2016
Alright. I'll be fine with Winged Serpent costing 0M if used in conjuction with Leaping Lizard. Making it a lower cost move that actually chains better around with the class itself. However I'm likely to suggest that the range be decreased to 6 squares to allow for some counter play.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Exxy - 07-16-2016
The -ONLY- disgruntlement I have with this thread is that Rendar referred to Cobra as an Innate (a bit silly, I know - I was aiming to be).
Aside from that, a nerf -is- needed and I'd have to say at the time of just taking a quick glimpse-over I 100% support this, if there is no edit to this post within as hour of it hitting the forums assume I've taken the time and read it properly enough and my opinion remains unchanged.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Snake - 07-16-2016
So yeah, it's like we discussed on Skype.
Leaping Lizard (1M)/Winged Serpent (0M).
Burn Up(1M)/Winged Serpent (3M).
[Balanced Stamp]
Having this will be smooth enough, I'm down with the other changes.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Exxy - 07-16-2016
"Snake" Wrote:So yeah, it's like we discussed on Skype.
Leaping Lizard (1M)/Winged Serpent (0M).
Burn Up(1M)/Winged Serpent (3M).
[Balanced Stamp]
Having this will be smooth enough, I'm down with the other changes.
After giving it (some degree of) thought over today, I thought about this instead:
Winged Serpent is 2M with a conditional of 1M (see example, Conditional only applies when used with Leaping Lizard).
1. Leaping Lizard (1M) -> WInged Serpent (1M).
2. Burn Up (1M) -> Winged Serpent (2M).
How does this matter in regards to what Koonie posted?
1. Leaping Lizard into Winged Serpent possesses some type of Movement sink while not being worse than literally just moving (Airborne alone is not enough to justify 3M over 2M).
2. Burn-Up can still be used for those that rather spend an equipment slot than Skill Point, they can still receive a restricted pesuedo-Move that grants the Airborne Status which can prove useful in a variety of things without totally nerfing it into the ground. The only real downside is that Sky Burn becomes semi-niche, which isn't a bad thing all things considering.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Rendar - 07-16-2016
We discussed the ramifications but
Leaping Lizard (1M) > Winged Serpent (0M)
and
Burnup/Gain Air (1M) > WINGED SERPENT (1M)
is better. It makes the class work with itself and stops shenanigans that occur, quite often, with Cobra as a whole. Remember, these are for the first use per round before momentum stacking or whatever it's called. It's better, over all.
Re: Cobra Dancing - Snake - 07-16-2016
(+1) to all, then.