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+--- Thread: Stunning Battery (/showthread.php?tid=3030)
Stunning Battery - Rendar - 07-18-2016
Stun, as a whole, is a status effect that there isn't much counterplay to. You either equip mayelia to hopefully counterplay it, or you just flat out die to it because there's not really any counterplay to losing your entire turn. If this came at a higher cost, or you got a much longer immunity to stun than the one turn you get now (which can lead to chain stunning still), then it might have some counterplay.
As it is now, Stun is the end all, be all of status effects that will almost instantly win you a fight against the person you're fighting. Things that can stun currently?
Dullahan's that lose their FP
Arbalest w/ Blowback Cannon (50%+WEIGHT chance)
Head Cracker (NPC)
Skullcaver (24% chance per crit)
These are, as far as I know, the only things that place "STUN" which makes balancing the class as a whole (or race for that matter) really hard.
Dullahan's can just FP screw themselves for a free 15% HP regen (ontop of the FP they get from the regen). Alongside interference immunity, it's insane.
Arbalests are the worst offenders of this. The class is gimmicky and requires basic attacks, but when it does work, it's pretty much instant game-over to their target. Gust Arrows + Deadly aim. Next round? Long Draw > Pulling shot (crit) > Blowback cannon. If your unfortunate victim is lucky enough to get the 30% or less chance to NOT be stunned, they're still knocked down, which removes momentum. If they weren't lucky, they lose 7 Momentum. Get to stand up for 3M next round, and then promptly lose out on, effectively, 1.5 turns of doing jack shit. These turns can be spent doing things like, RELOAD ACCEL, etc. This is why no one wants Arbalests buffed. Because their gimmick with Blowback is so ridiculous...
Headcracker is bad and NPCs can/will chain-stun your punk ass with it, especially certain event mobs. (*STARING AT GMS*)
Skullcaver is.. iffy. It requires a crit, but running it with Duelist makes it so you can, likely, get 3 hits a round. It also doesn't give stun immunity for ??? reason, so you can get a pretty good chance to actually stun someone forever and never let them actually fight back. In an RP sense, I'd probably assume this is the equivalent of an ice pick lobotomy, and anyone caught doing this sort of crap IC is probably going to jail. Forever. WHO KNOWS.
These are the only things that give stunned status. Which, rightly so, are few. It's such a gamebreaking status effect that people actually just leave if they see you whip any of that stuff out. Things that swap celerity around for a few turns and allow a person to Double Turn aren't nearly as reliable, nor do they deny someone their entire turn. It allows for some counterplay in that eventually, they'll double turn you back. Stun is just... "GET LUCKY OR DIE", with most of the odds never in the defenders favor. So here are some 'suggestions' for how to fix this.
Suggestion One
--- Make STUN a 2 tier status. (for Headcracker/Skullcaver/Blowback only).
----What this means is that you have to land STUN once, which will make the target "DAZED". However if you land it again within a certain timeframe depending upon the skill. You'll send them into the "STUNNED" status. Which will do as it does now. This solves the issue of it being so prevalent by making it much rarer to actually land it, and requiring more momentum to just deny someone their ability to fight back.
SUGGESTION TWO
---Make Stun less OP
----Iunno. Probably just make it a stunning effect, like the Ryeser and Booksmack??? It's basically -3 momentum (or 4???) and has a cooldown or status immunity or SOMETHING. Using it with anything KD would probably be aids but. Iunno. Seems a bit better than it is now.
GIB THOUGHTS
Re: Stunning Battery - Snake - 07-18-2016
"Rendar" Wrote:Suggestion One
--- Make STUN a 2 tier status. (for Headcracker/Skullcaver/Blowback only).
----What this means is that you have to land STUN once, which will make the target "DAZED". However if you land it again within a certain timeframe depending upon the skill. You'll send them into the "STUNNED" status. Which will do as it does now. This solves the issue of it being so prevalent by making it much rarer to actually land it, and requiring more momentum to just deny someone their ability to fight back.
This, this is just wonderful. And opens the new possibility of a new debuff that works like silence for 'skills', I'd like to see how good that'd be.
Dazed people are 'silenced' from Skills for 3 rounds or something, Stunned people lose 6-7M (A turn.)
But regardless, I agree with the OP's main point of view, Dazed (3M), then Stunned (3M). 6M for a debuff that will apply a 6-7M penality to the enemy. If this is ever implemented, I'd like to see the Dazed a 'party' debuff, as in. If one arbalest dazes a target, his arbalest friend can teamwork and stun!
Re: Stunning Battery - Exxy - 07-19-2016
"Rendar" Wrote:Suggestion One
--- Make STUN a 2 tier status. (for Headcracker/Skullcaver/Blowback only).
----What this means is that you have to land STUN once, which will make the target "DAZED". However if you land it again within a certain timeframe depending upon the skill. You'll send them into the "STUNNED" status. Which will do as it does now. This solves the issue of it being so prevalent by making it much rarer to actually land it, and requiring more momentum to just deny someone their ability to fight back.
I can mostly agree to this. Maybe throw in a global cooldown for successful stuns (2 rounds after successful? The cooldown would NOT be proc'd on the turn you suffer from Stun), I'm not sure if there is already one or not as my only memorable experience with this is from the Skullcaver abuse (at the hands of others).
I'm tempted to say it shouldn't have -any- synergy with Knockdown and you should get KD Immunity proc'd if you have the appropriate Trait just because of inevitable juggling shenanigans that would come down the road.
Lastly, can we please just remind people of how much a turn of nothing matters?? There shouldn't nearly as much play-ability as there currently is for this. Sorry, small tangent. I just thought I needed to remind some people this is needed.Looking at you, Koonie.
Re: Stunning Battery - Snake - 07-19-2016
"Exxy" Wrote:Lastly, can we please just remind people of how much a turn of nothing matters?? There shouldn't nearly as much play-ability as there currently is for this. Sorry, small tangent. I just thought I needed to remind some people this is needed.Looking at you, Koonie.
I posted that Dazed should silence Skills, like Silence silences Magic.
And that two Arbalests can collab to stun someone. One uses blowback cannon to apply dazed, other uses blowback cannon to apply stun.
Verglas can teamwork with Expand Ice and all the party's Ice tiles.
Why not two Arbalests? That will just make 4v4 teamfights more 'fun'. While leaving the OP's suggestion unchanging in 1v1 scenarios. (You have to Daze, then Stun. Taking 6M.)
Dazing will 'silence' the opponent from skills, that's one new situational effect, Stun will make them lose one turn, another effect. This can conflict in a situation where the person with stun potential will have to make the right choice between dazing or stunning the target, not just stun-nutting people like they do currently.
Re: Stunning Battery - MegaBlues - 07-19-2016
I would be 100% for adding in a status to prevent skills from being used.
Then maybe magic will get fixed.
Re: Stunning Battery - Exxy - 07-20-2016
"Snake" Wrote:I posted that Dazed should silence Skills, like Silence silences Magic.
And that two Arbalests can collab to stun someone. One uses blowback cannon to apply dazed, other uses blowback cannon to apply stun.
Verglas can teamwork with Expand Ice and all the party's Ice tiles.
Why not two Arbalests? That will just make 4v4 teamfights more 'fun'. While leaving the OP's suggestion unchanging in 1v1 scenarios. (You have to Daze, then Stun. Taking 6M.)
Dazing will 'silence' the opponent from skills, that's one new situational effect, Stun will make them lose one turn, another effect. This can conflict in a situation where the person with stun potential will have to make the right choice between dazing or stunning the target, not just stun-nutting people like they do currently.
When I referred to play-ability I meant what it allows you to do in the current situation and it wasn't directly in reference to your comments (I think). As for Dazed being universal, I can kind of agree to it but I'd imagine a big shift in meta (for those optimalists).
As for Dazing affecting Skills? No. Unless we're talking about giving autohits your basic hit % proc minus a bit when Dazed (then I can live with it). Otherwise you would see more people using it simply to inflict Daze rather than than the status it procs, either by people waiting until Dazed is about to time out THEN proc-attempting or by simply just using Dazed.
While we're on subject, I'd like to play with this idea:
-Current Stuns switch to giving Dazed-only (fitting what was mentioned in the post by Rendar I believe).
-Changing Stun to proc on: Dazed+Knockdown while Dazed = Stun for the duration of inflicted's next turn (assuming they're already gone).
EDIT: Small edits made.
And no, before I suffer the inevitable "You said it shouldn't have ANY synergy with Knockdown." The proposed idea I have makes it reliant on proc'ing a Knockdown (which is a Momentum sink and gives it a cooldown tied to Knockdown) where-as earlier the reason why I said for you not to be able to do it was this:
Jim could proc the Stun -> The turn after you recover Jim procs a Knockdown for more Momentum loss.
Re: Stunning Battery - Rendar - 07-20-2016
Uh.
Just an FYI before you guys like. Go off on your own thing.
Current Stuns would be giving DAZED status.
Giving DAZED to a target that is already DAZED (which doesn't do anything on it's own) will make the target STUNNED for a round.
It's an almost equal momentum shift for what the person loses.
Re: Stunning Battery - Snake - 07-20-2016
"Snake" Wrote:"Rendar" Wrote:Suggestion One
--- Make STUN a 2 tier status. (for Headcracker/Skullcaver/Blowback only).
----What this means is that you have to land STUN once, which will make the target "DAZED". However if you land it again within a certain timeframe depending upon the skill. You'll send them into the "STUNNED" status. Which will do as it does now. This solves the issue of it being so prevalent by making it much rarer to actually land it, and requiring more momentum to just deny someone their ability to fight back.
But regardless, I agree with the OP's main point of view, Dazed (3M), then Stunned (3M). 6M for a debuff that will apply a 6-7M penality to the enemy.
'you guys'?
Anyway! That's pretty much it, got nothing else to add, just hope for it to be judged by Dev. It's a good way to balance Stun IMO!