The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Printable Version +- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums) +-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +---- Forum: Beta Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=45) +---- Thread: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. (/showthread.php?tid=3042) |
The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 The Great Reckoning
Part 2 It's that time again. I'm knee-deep in upheaval, and this time, my target is the talent system. I mentioned this was almost certainly going to be something I did, probably sooner than later, and I was right. While I won't be done this week, I thought it would be best to give you a heads up what I'm working on and give you information as I finish work on this. Then, just like last time, we can move onto an independent beta test before finally pushing it to the live servers. So let's get right down to it. Q. What is the Great Reckoning, Part 2? A. This is the second edition of a series of overhauls to SL2, specifically to the talent system. Part 1 was the stat system, which left a lot of holes in the talent system, so it only made sense to approach it next. Q. What's wrong with the current talent system? A. The current talent system is rather shallow and simplistic. Some talents are mandatory, like expertise for your main weapon, while some are borderline useless, like Scout. Secondly, talents currently give a wide range of benefits that directly scale with your talent rank, meaning if you're going to put a point in them, it's often best to just max them out. Other times, it's your only option, if you want a specific benefit the talent gives, even if you don't want anything else. Compounding this problem is the number of talents available. There's 26, which is a decent number, but probably not for the number of talent points you receive (60), and the interface as is doesn't give me much room to expand and add more easily, because it's full up. This means certain obvious deficiencies like some elements not having -mancy talents are harder to address. Another thing to consider is that talents currently don't help deepen your character. Part of this problem is that everyone can get almost every relevant talent, and part of it is that there just aren't enough existing areas to branch out to; which is to say, some character concepts aren't properly supported in the current talent system. If I'm a medic character, what are my options in the current talent system? 3 points in alchemy? In short, the talent system isn't particularly bad, but it's shallow and could be so much better if it were expanded and offered more choices. Q. My attention span is waning, please give me an image to re-focus me to what you are typing. A. This is the new talent interface. As I said last time, I would be using the character box for most of the other interfaces, which I am. It works the same way the old one did, in a sense, in that it lets you shift between the different 'pages' such as character info and talents rather easily. Q. How does the new talent system work? A. It works similarly to the old one but also differently. There are still talents, but each talent is broke into several subpaths. For example, in the image: Blade Expertise 1.5 SP per Rank
Blade Expertise is the main talent, while Balance, Adapation, and Reliability are all sub-talents, or sub-paths. A main talent has a rank, just like it currently does, represented by the green circle, and every rank you put into the main talent gives you a number of Subpoints (which varies from talent to talent). These subpoints can be spent in the subpaths to increase their effects; this is referred to in the subpath's description as 'SR' (or sub-rank). For example, if I put two points into Balance, its SR is 2, meaning the Battle Weight of my swords/daggers gets reduced by 2 * 1.5 = 3. The maximum subrank is shown by the number of orbs that appear; it's unique to each sub-path; in the existing ones, they go from any number between 1 and 10, but are usually around 5 or less. The number of subpoints you can distribute is equal to the rank of the main talent * the number of SP it gives per Rank, rounded down. So, at Rank 2, my Blade Expertise gives me 3 SP to distribute. Again, this is unique to each talent; some give more, some give less. Also, the maximum rank of a main talent is now 10, instead of 3 or 5. Increasing the rank of a main talent still takes 1 Talent Point, and you still get 1 Talent Point per level. Q. I have questions. A. I know. If it's about specific talents, I will likely address them later. I'm still currently in the process of programming the effects of the talents, and some of them are a bit more ambitious than others, so I'd rather talk about them after I have finished the work. I will, most likely, make individual posts for each category (Weaponry, War, etc) as I finish them, detailing the talents, talking about them a little bit, and so on. I also do not guarantee to go in order, since some categories have more... complex talents than others. Q. Are you going to ruin even more things with this new system? A. Yes. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 WEAPONRY
The 'expertise' skills all got changed. All of them have two subpaths between them; Balance, which reduces Battle Weight, and Adaptation, that enables you to equip them regardless of your main class. However, they all have a unique subpath based on the type of weapon.Blade Expertise 1.5 SP per Rank
Swords are usually seen as the middle ground of weapons, balanced in most respects. Reliability helps keep them in shape. Axe Expertise 1.5 SP per Rank
Axes have more destructive force than the other melee weapons and they have a strong emphasis on deadly blows, hence Deadliness. Polearm Expertise 1.5 SP per Rank
One of the things I wanted to change about the weapon expertises is a less focus on generic power increase and go for situational power instead, to help the weapons feel a bit different. That's the general idea behind Thin Tip, giving you an edge against foes trying to attack into your spear. Archery 1.5 SP per Rank
Close Shot makes melee range bow shots slightly less punishing. For regular bows, instead of suffering from -50% Hit, you can get away with just -25% Hit, which is still pretty punishing. Shortbows don't exist in live but you can expect to see a few in the beta test, and they're better suited to close quarters, suffering from no penalty if you rank Close Shot up to SR5. Unarmed Combat 1.5 SP per Rank
Fists and MAs have always been very good at anti-mage roles and Dizzy helps that, since a lot of mages prefer to be unarmored. Armored opponents won't feel much of its effects, however, especially heavy armor users who will only lose 1 FP at most. Marksmanship 1 SP per Rank
Marksmanship retains its role in helping long range weapons. Wind Read can be useful for archers with low/medium amounts of Guile, and more attack range benefits pretty much any Bow or Gun user. Maintenance 2 SP per Rank
Maintenance is similar but quite different. The talent is a good deal more powerful if invested in, going up to 5 durability repairs per battle (or 2 per weapon, if multiple). Not only that, but you can give everyone else in your party the same benefit. And, if your weapon snaps in the middle of a battle, you can avoid being up the creek without a paddle with Emergency Service. Maintenance is a very helpful party talent, and I thought it might be interesting to make it more impactful, perhaps for any squire-like characters out there. --- Overall Thoughts: Overall my goal with the expertise category was to make them feel a little less mandatory, as they don't necessarily give you any Power or Critical anymore. That said, people will still probably want to invest in them, which is fine, but for some people they might only put in 4 points to max out the unique subpath and have one extra point over. Maintenance was expanded to let characters who heavily invest in that idea to be very useful party members, instead of everyone and their mother having it active all the time. I suppose that isn't guaranteed to change, but at least people will have to invest more heavily in it to achieve that, and the ones who take the talent up to rank 10 will always have some edge on those who didn't. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 WAR
March 2 SP per Rank
March is the same as always. There isn't too much to say about it, really. Bravery 1 SP per Rank
Bravery is a new talent and a required skill in war, because war is quite scary. It offers some good bonuses, but 1 SP per Rank is lower than most other talents. Heat of Battle can give you an edge over people who like to camp the edges of the battlefield and some small defensive bonuses against monsters. Will mentions Fear of Death, which is a new mechanic. When you take damage that exceeds half of your maximum HP, or any damage that takes you to or below 15% of your maximum HP (even if you're already below that threshold), you receive a Fear status from the person who damaged you for 3 rounds. Any 'normal' person in that situation of getting cornered or suddenly taking such a massive blow would probably be shaken, and if your character isn't one of those, then Will helps you negate it. Two-Hand 1 SP per Rank
Two-Hand is a simple talent; it lets you use one weapon more effectively, giving you some reason to do so. Heavy weapons are a size classification that currently only applies to the Axe family; when the beta is live, people can post a suggestion for which Sword and Spear weapons should receive the classification, because there's probably more than a few. I could have gone through and changed them already but I am more concerned with finishing programming the talents first. Chivalry 2 SP per Rank
Some might say that chivalry doesn't win wars, but... at any rate, these two subpaths are what Chivalry has to start with. They don't play nice with the things rogues like to do, for example, flanking. In fact, Smite's Hit bonus is probably a lot smaller than what you'd get from flanking, but for characters with low GUI, or who won't be trying to do so anyway, this offers a nice alternative. Any new bonuses from Chivalry will probably follow similar constraints. Hit your opponent where they can see, don't hit them when they're down, don't gang up on them. It's not a knightly thing to do. First Aid 1 SP per Rank
Detainment 1.5 SP per Rank
Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 ELEMENTAL
The Elemental category is overall pretty simple. It contains all of the elemental -mancy skills that let you increase your performance with a specific type/domain of spell. I also added quite a few, since some elements were missing them due to space constraints of the old system. Like expertise skills, they all share two common subpaths; one that increases your elemental ATK and one that reduces the FP cost of spells of its appropriate domain.Pyromancy 2 SP per Rank
Pyromancy is still pyromancy. Scorch is another common theme in the Elemental category, boosting the duration of special effect tiles. I wouldn't be surprised if they need adjusted down the line, but for now... Cryomancy 2 SP per Rank
Not too much to say for most of these, other than for some of them, appropriate status type boosts were rather hard to come up with. But since this system is easy to expand and add new subpaths to, there's always room for them in the future. Geomancy 2 SP per Rank
Geomancy extends the duration of the situational Magnetize status, which is nice. Aeromancy 2 SP per Rank
There's naught but air here. Aquamancy 2 SP per Rank
Aquamancy is the one that needs the most expansion in the future, mainly because it doesn't really inflict status effects and it doesn't have any special effect tiles. This may change in the future. Note that Aquamancy and Cryomancy's Efficiency bonuses don't double up, as the description says. Altermancy 2 SP per Rank
Altermancy is for the dark mages and hexers. Solmancy 2 SP per Rank
Finally, the priests and priestesses have their own little specialization. Fulgurmancy 2 SP per Rank
Lightning is a little more unique than the rest of the -mancy talents, being able to boost the chance and damage of its unique elemental gimmick. --- Overall Thoughts: This category is probably the most plain, overall, since most of the effects are rather similar to each other, but I think it's a necessity. Plus, this category can always be expanded in the future, so it's not a big deal; the core identity more or less made its way over. If I ever have to change the duration of field objects, I'd probably do it as SR * 20%, so SR 5 = doubled duration. But for now, we'll try it like this and see what happens. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 ARCANE
Arcane is the category with the least number of talents in it, but at the same time, that makes it good for expansion later on. Still, it holds quite a few impactful talents.Capacity 1 SP per Rank
Capacity retains its core functions, as you might expect. Enchantment 1.5 SP per Rank
As does Enchantment, although now it helps inflict status effects as well. Fluency 2 SP per Rank
Fluency doubles up as the Tome 'Expertise', a roleplaying talent, and some other useful bits, namely Spellbook. Even non-Mage characters can benefit from it, as long as they have a Tome in hand, which could be useful for Tacticians. Invocation 1.5 SP per Rank
Invocation has gotten a power boost, allowing mages who are specialized for it to avoid having to worry about damage stopping Invocations, and get slightly tankier while doing so to boot. Summoning 2 SP per Rank
These are mainly QOL benefits for Summoner, making it easier to level up your Youkai and become friends with them. Will almost certainly get other subpaths in the future to keep it from being a pointless talent to have once all your Youkai are full level. --- Overall Thoughts: Arcane is rather slim at the moment but that's what you'd expect, since most of the talents are existing ones remade for the new system, and the elemental specializations have their own category. Like anything, there's plenty of room to expand it later. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 OCCULT
NOTE: This category is not finished. The full list is still to come. However, I will be updating this when I post in the thread about finished talents..Alchemy 1.5 SP per Rank
Alchemy is still a good talent overall. The boosts it gives to items are now more powerful if you increase the rank of Perfect. Gatherer is essential if you want to play alchemist, as well. Astrology 2 SP per Rank
Astrology is one of the many talents in occult that has some uniqueness tied to it. Devotion 1.5 SP per Rank
Spiritualism 1.5 SP per Rank
More coming soon. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Neus - 07-20-2016 SURVIVAL
Survival is familiar territory. It doesn't have many talents that affect combat, but does have many convenience ones, as well as some related to crafting.Preparation 1.5 SP per Rank
Preparation has been expanded slightly, letting you get more emergency food supplies. Initiative was changed; before it lasted for turns equal to the rank of Preparation, but that was a little OP, I felt. Now it makes more sense, but it can also be stronger on the first turn. Packrat 1.5 SP per Rank
Packrat is still what it is; an enabler for item addiction. Scout 1.5 SP per Rank
Scout has some more general use paths. Keen Eye is more or less what it did before. Solver and Trenchman make it easier to utilize the pit traps, and the latter also helps speed up things for farmers. Landmarker should make getting a treasure map full of sand a little less impossible to solve. Security 2 SP per Rank
Security has gotten a lot of changes. Before, your CEL and SKI played a part in your success rate; that's no longer the case, neither for locks nor trap disarms. Dexterity is probably a largely welcomed addition. Since lockpicking takes 4 seconds to perform, if you have SR5 in Dexterity, it drops it down to only 1.5 seconds, which is a huge difference. I expect that will be very common for anyone who invests in Security. Harvest 2 SP per Rank
Harvest is a bit different now. First of all, all of the 'daily nodes' have been changed to work like the randomly generated ones, except they won't disappear. You'll need tools, if appropriate, as well as some physical stamina to use them. If you're heavy into non-combat activities this is probably your bread and butter talent, since it speeds up things (but if you like to take it slow that's fine too). As for what Experienced means by 'minor injuries', well, we'll touch on what it is when War goes up, but basically, a minor injury might be something like a pulled back or a rock hitting your head. It'll make sense at some point. Cooking 2 SP per Rank
Cooking and food have undergone some overhauls. First of all, different food qualities no longer exist; when you log in to this version, all your food will get put on a meal ticket that you use to 'regain' it in stacks. Yes, food stacks now, so no more clogging up your inventory. Instead of having the quality determined when an item is cooked, instead, I'm moving more to it increasing based on how it's presented, like above. Not only will this make inventories easier to navigate, but it will help decrease the overhead caused by saving/loading a bit, since it won't be saving 20-30 different foods. I don't think the varying qualities had much significance either; the values were higher, yes, and randomized, making food more 'unique' per serving but that is of debatable value. Instead, now, you can clear a dungeon and make a camp for you and your friends, eat something nice, or set up a banquet. This helps roleplay, as well; before if you wanted to feed your friends, you'd have to somewhat painstakingly trade with them. It is much simpler and more immersive this way, in my opinion. Concealment 2 SP per Rank
As promised, I said you would be able to obscure your equipment in the examine menu, and here it is. Plain turns equipment into generic descriptions which varies based on what it is; for weapons, it'll still say the size of the weapon and the type it is, for example 'A large sword.' and for armor it'll say the armor type, 'A heavy armor torso.', etc. So if you're a real stickler for being looked at, here's your out. Sneak has also been adjusted mainly for the sake of sanity; it didn't make much sense to be chased down by a monster and somehow still be sneaking around. Now, you actually need to sneak up on them. I debated making Moneyboot 0% effective for Nagas but it's such a random demerit for that race that I didn't bother. Besides, if you think about it, they can still wear boots on their hands. --- Overall Thoughts: Survival gives you a bit of a peek at the kind of thing I'm going for with the last two categories, or at least, Cooking does. War is not wholely full of roleplaying stuff but there is a bit as well as a 'big' one that I previewed, and Occult is ambitiously full of new ideas that are more complicated than the rest of the talents. War is mostly done, with only two talents not being finished, and some of the stuff in Occult hasn't been fully written out yet, although I have a good idea of what I want to do for all of them in my notes. Furthermore, War requires me to setup and program another interface for something, so if I host a beta any time soon, it will probably be with the understanding that a few of the talents will not be implemented fully yet. But we'll see what happens. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Lolzytripd - 07-20-2016 umm dev Quote:Adaptation - Allows you to equip any Axe weapon with a Rarity equal to or less than SR*2. does this mean If I don't pay the 5 subpoint tax into this I cannot equip 10 star axes, even if my class lets me equip axes? If so, this is lame, needs to die in a ditch, and replaced with something thats good, and optional Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Snake - 07-20-2016 "Lolzytripd" Wrote:umm dev Sounds more like the current 'can use it with any class' (Magic Gunner main class wielding an Axe), but yeah, it's a bit ambiguous. EDIT: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T SHITPOST DEV EVER AGAIN-- My heart rate thanks you. Re: The Great Reckoning, Part 2 - A hint of things to come. - Exxy - 07-20-2016 I'll be looking forward to it, probably. Good work so far Dev. Already fan-girling over Dizzy, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. |