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Weapon re-scalings - Printable Version

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Weapon re-scalings - Autumn - 08-06-2016

I have a couple of concerns over a few weapons, and this is more of a buff thread than a nerf thread, so yay, some of the weapons I'm listing have seen little use since the update so I think they could use a bit of tuning to bring them up with other weapons, if you could consider each one individually, I'm not saying each one has to make it in, but at least a couple of these would bring a little bit more diversity to the weapon pool, its mostly just changes to fist weapons with a couple changes to some others like swords, if you'd like to read the reasoning as to why, I posted them in spoiler tags.

Claw Gauntlet - 60% STR 45% SKI (110% Critical Damage, up from 105%)
Ahh claw gauntlet, I started off with this first because I feel as if claw gauntlet doesn't have enough 'unique' going on for it, it does slash damage, yes, and that's great, I suggest more partial SKI scaling because the thing should act a bit more like a sword, oh also, 110% Critical damage sets it apart from other fist weapons very slightly, I feel as if this'd be used by actual claw characters with these changes.

Magical Comet - 55% STR 70% WIL
The reasoning to the scaling change on magical comet, takes away from it's str scaling slightly in favor of WIL scaling, and I get that all the spelledge weapons scale similarly to magical comet, but I really think an exception would work here, a big reason for that is because will based monks and verglases have been stuck in limbo for the longest of time, this change is to open up a new build path for martial artists alike.

Cobalt Qrytys - 55% STR 50% GUI (120% critical damage, up from 105%)
Ahh, Cobalt Qrytys, I believe I raised a thread about this once, however it turned rather biased rather quickly, I think it'd only be fair that Cobalt Qrytys be given the same treatment as Knuckledusters, and have 120% critical damage, the guile scaling is because lets face it, the weapon is going to be used by void assassins, who typically build GUI anyway, saves it from being a rich-man's knuckleduster as well.

Fenri - 45% STR 60% SKI
Fenri, essentially just reversing it's scalings, a little bit, I believe this weapon is a verglas' dream, the epitome of what they want, lets make it scale a little bit harder for building ice damage, cause why not?

Mortissimo - 40% STR 65% SAN
This one's a little bit of a nerf, unfortunately, I don't think SAN should scale so hard on any weapon but a tome, this opens up some really mean autohit paths, total scaling not changed, SAN scaling is reduced.

Hands of the Giant - 110% STR
I like to believe the theme of this weapon is just maxing out your strength and hitting somebody as hard as you can, diminishing returns kind of mess with this weapon and it's STR Gain, so I think that if you take out the DEF scaling and turn it into STR, you'll be returning the theme of this weapon to people who used it.

Tarnada - 40% SKI 50% CEL
Tarnada is a weapon that I really like, but the build path for it is very VERY one-way, you build STR/SKI/CEL/LUC/GUI just so you can do damage with it, but after that, what other skill points do you have? SKI itself is a powerful scaling of itself, so lowering the total scaling to 90% to compensate for a newer more diverse scaling and also the fact that it can cast VYDEL for FREE! I think this weapon has a cool theme.

Also, speaking about it from a scaling perspective it never made sense in the first place, you don't swing a wind sword as hard as you can with all your strength, you want to be precise with that thing because its a wind sword, they're generally very light, and don't require a heavy hand.

Kingslayer - 100% STR.
Kingslayer, oh how the mighty have fallen, literally, that's the theme of the weapon, it's supposed to be a regular sword until you meet somebody with a 10 star or it's a boss, this sword is meant to 'Challenge' those, that's the entire theme of the weapon, and given that it has no special effect when facing somebody who doesn't have one of these, it's just a regular sword, and should be treated as one, you could argue it has high power, but a rebelling longsword would have 5% more scaling and also about 10 more power than this sword.

Soulstealer - 20% STR 60% WIL 20% RES
A weapon that involves stealing your opponent's will for yourself, REALLY neat in concept, but it scales STR mostly, and only some will, I think these could be swapped to give more synergy to itself, very simple.


Re: Weapon re-scalings - Akame - 08-06-2016

Yesssss. I was half-tempted to make a topic about this but never had the time, especially about the Kingslayer.
It NEEDS this. As of now, if you meet someone with a 10*, it will only now finally function with scaling similar to a regular weapon, but just a little better. It's supposed to be the punishment for using a 10*! Edit: Probably should be 90% STR scaling though.

I don't necessarily agree with the Cobalt's scaling and critical damage change. It is a fist, therefore, it should have 105% critical damage like other fist counterparts. However, it is treated like a dagger, so it can use a scaling change to include Guile, but it should only go up to 90% like it's other 9* counterparts, so 50 STR and 40 GUI, or 50 GUI and 40 STR. It needs no special treatment.

The Magical comet is fine where it is in my opinion.

I don't see a good reason to change the Tarnada's scaling to SKI from STR, even though it could be nice. Most swords scale from STR; that's a sword's theme.

I don't know why the Hands of the Giant ever scaled with DEF, so I guess so.

The other weapons I don't have any experience with to have an opinion on.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Lolzytripd - 08-06-2016

I agree with these

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Esther - 08-06-2016

I'd think swords, at the very least one-handed swords, would be the least dependent on STR out of the three main melee weapon types. So far, the only sword I've seen that isn't majority-STR, has been the Hakouhen Masterwork Katana, with 30% STR / 70% SKI. When I think of a sword, I think of something you're wielding with finesse -- something where you're utilizing complex, skillful maneuvers to get in through openings in an opponent's guard.

Contrast axes, which are all about crushing a wedge through said guard and hacking apart shields and armor, and spears, which are just as much about hard, piercing thrusts and utilizing the leverage of a long weapon.

Personally, I feel like it would better reflect the theme of one-handed swordsmanship styles to have minimal STR scaling, in favour of SKI instead. The lightest among the swords (tarnada, hakouhen, etc.) should likely have no STR scaling. I would suggest replacing it with CEL instead -- these types of swords are meant to be used by light-footed, quick sorts of characters. They are sharpened to a keen edge and wielded with finesse.

~Heavy~ swords, on the other hand (read: the ones that end up being affected by the upcoming Two-Handed talent), should be all about STR scaling, and maybe some VIT. Large swords like the claymore, and even the bastard sword, were sharpened much less keenly than smaller swords. A portion of the claymore's blade is even left ~unsharpened~, and there's a second handguard above it, because at times you need the extra leverage to manage its length and weight. These swords function more like axes, in that they rely much more on their weight and the force behind the blow in order to crush past opponents' guard. These swords were used with wide, sweeping arcs to discourage the approach of lighter-armored foes.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Snake - 08-06-2016

+1, I cry for the fact Quickdraws will be trash forever.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Exxy - 08-06-2016

The only ones I have comments on:

- Cobalt Qrytys: I didn't realize I was being bias but I felt my concerns were addressed in that thread. Although I'll give a quick synopsis here: You're changing their critical damage to a higher amount (which can be stacked upon already existing VA Skills) from the critical weapons you tried to have nerfed. More than disappointed in you still trying to squeak this one by.

- Mortissimo: You want to take the SAN scaling away from it? This will most likely take it away from the Vampires that benefit from it and place it in the hellish limbo of "Rarely Used" as things currently stand. It could at least see it's Critical Damage upped by 5-10% (not like it'd help if the proposed changes go through).

Personally, when I was running a soft-capped SAN build (as Lupine, 40 SAN - before anything is said, soft-capped in terms of benefits from Instinct) it had struggled to even stay behind my main weapons. I can't see this getting a nerf unless Vampires are really a problem (in which case it'd be better to nerf them and not the weapon).

- Hands of the Giant: Just no. You'll have to remind me of it's exact stats, but for the purpose of this post I'm assuming 80% STR, 25% DEF. Changing it to Pure STR would most likely make this item too overbearing (and I assume this was Dev's process while thinking of it). It could probably stand a 5% STR increase/DEF decrease but nothing near pure STR.

- Other(s): Some seem a bit 'eh' (like Claw Gauntlet) and others I have natural concern as to how it would be affected (like Tarnada) but have had little experience with them to comment on the matter.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Rendar - 08-06-2016

I'm not for Cobalt's gettin gud like that. 40 STr/50 GUI is perfectly fine, and it should stay at 105%. Maybe 110-115, especially since the weapon type itself gets a +CRIT DMG mod iirc.

Otherwise, sure why not to like. Everything else.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Autumn - 08-06-2016

Cobalt Qrytys' crit damage is the same as knuckleduster's but worse than a dagger's with what I proposed, the weapon is meant for void assassins, and benefits from deadly arms to be the higher damaging fist weapon at the cost of fleur, you already take a huge risk using this weapon, don't let it be worse off than a knuckleduster, I will again say no, Cobalt Qrytys deserve's it's damage, you are already stuck in a limited build path with it, my reasons are PLENTY justified.

As for the scaling on it, sure, put it at 90%, however I really want this weapon to be good again, you take a huge risk using a crit based weapon without fleur, high risk, high reward gameplay is what I want the most here, yes fist weapons have a crit part, but its only 8% extra critical damage.

As for kingslayer, I could see it being a 90% instead of 100%, I more so just want to give it it's identity back.

As for Mortissimo? I've already stated this, but when you get physical based weapons with high scaling on neither STR nor SKI, you'll start falling into a very stagnant tank autohit meta, and quite frankly that meta is boring, it gains more strength scaling for less SAN scaling so that you need to build both, but still benefits those who had more SAN than STR in their builds.

For hands of the giant, I've already listed off the reason, it has the exact same scaling it does now, but it just leans into strength, giving the theme of it's weapon and the characters who used it, back to that, makes no sense for the thing to scale DEF, you are supposed to be hitting someone with your raw strength, and because of diminishing returns, it doesn't synergize with itself.

..So yes, I believe every single one of these weapons is justified and I discussed with quite a few people before suggesting these.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Exxy - 08-06-2016

Like I said previously, I can see it (the Qyrtys) being brought up to -compete- with the Knuckleduster although still being slightly sub-par in terms of crit-ability (and only outright pass it with VA's Deadly Arms). But I see no reason to make it the end-all-be-all.

Although the only thing you lose from being unable to Fluer is being able to use a 2M Winds Skill or Sharpen... unless you -somehow- miss your attack as a Kensei/Monk or VA/Kensei (Kensei/VA in Beta+), in which case you have more to worry about than Fluer saving your butt.

Re: Weapon re-scalings - Autumn - 08-06-2016

What you lose from not having fleur is having to be able to critically strike twice, which itself is a double gamble.

You have an extreme bias for knuckleduster here it seems, deadly arms isn't even that much now, its only +25% critical damage to weapons that count as daggers, there's no issue here I find, you give damage to people who build damage, going VA without duelist is a huge risk of itself.