+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Invocation Breaking (/showthread.php?tid=327)
Invocation Breaking - Rendar - 12-06-2014
Okay so. Invocations are kinda bullshit. Lemme tell ya why.
Jessica Shito chants "Open the gate to another world..."
Shiva van Fenrir was knocked down by the earthen impact of the kick!
Shiva van Fenrir takes 52 Blunt damage.
Quinn A. Kadilio's turn.
Shiva van Fenrir takes 137 Blunt damage.
Shiva van Fenrir got back up!
So like. Even with 137 damage, it still wasn't broken. That was the maximum damage I could do.
Her WIL in combat was 52.
137-52=85*.5=42.5% Chance to break an invocation.
Or if its using the buggy formula we all think it is, its even less.
137*.5=68.5-52=16.5% chance to break it
Now. I'm not complaining that it's hard to break Invocations. What I'm complaining about is that damage doesn't stack to count against it.
With the change that it'd stack, the first damage would have a chance to break it would be 0%.
The second attack would have a (137+52)-52=137*.5= 68.5%
While this is still asinine considering I just well over half the average mages health in damage to them, it puts it on the path to being better. Less broken, and gives people an actual chance to break it. They can risk it and have to deal a ton of damage and possibly break your invocation, but if they fail, you literally get easy pickings because they are standing RIGHT beside you... Or they break it and you're SOL on that invocation. It's how invocations should be. As it is now, you quite literally have to almost KILL someone in a single hit to get a 100% chance of breaking it. Which is sad.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Blissey - 12-06-2014
I don't think Breakvocation damage is supposed to stack. Knocking down a mage should break Invocations though, I don't see why that doesn't.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Rendar - 12-06-2014
It should stack, otherwise I would have to deal 280 damage in a SINGLE hit to guarantee a break.
Knockdown doesn't break invocations, only KO and heavy, heavy damage. Damage that isn't really attainable outside of Charge Mind Magical attacks.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Trexmaster - 12-06-2014
Uh, just so you know, you just posted the damage you did to /Shiva/, not Jessica.
I'd post the battle logs but I had to relog because bugs...but I clearly remember you did 143 (approxmiately) to them, and didn't break the invocation.
So your odds were slightly better, but, still, invocations as they stand are pretty much impossible to break without just outright killing the one casting, or silencing them.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Rendar - 12-06-2014
Oh whoops. I derped on that one.
I think I did like 10 more damage? Idek.
The chance to break them were still next to nothing.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Mivereous - 12-06-2014
What if it was a counter thing like Dive? Invocation level 300, would have to do 300 damage to break it, or KD/KO. Just using 300 as an example number. Maybe have it start at 30, and each Invocation Talent Rank add 30 to that number, or the like. That would be a cap of 210.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Grandpa - 12-07-2014
"[url=http://neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?p=1691#p1691 Wrote:Mivereous ยป Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:33 pm[/url]"]What if it was a counter thing like Dive? Invocation level 300, would have to do 300 damage to break it, or KD/KO. Just using 300 as an example number. Maybe have it start at 30, and each Invocation Talent Rank add 30 to that number, or the like. That would be a cap of 210.I like this. Maybe make it 50 though, given that 200+ damage isn't that hard to dish out for pretty much anyone.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Rendar - 12-07-2014
30+50*5 is 280 damage. That is you, more or less, killing a person in one turn. This is the exact same problem as we have now tbh.
Maybe LVL/2+InvocationRank*35
Re: Invocation Breaking - Ryu-Kazuki - 12-07-2014
Why is it lately that all I've heard about is "taking mages down a peg" or "nerf mages"? PD's suggestion of knockdown is fine enough to break invocations and still be on a fair and level playing field. Mages have to spend 5 talent points to even get a decent chance to not get an invocation to break and that's a major component of how mages work, seeing as Summoners, and Papilions also have invocations, and theirs can't be reduced to 3M like Evokers.
Plus, Mages have to spend multiple turns and massive FP amounts to even accumulate that much damage, which can easily be resisted / negated / etc via classes, items, etc. These arguments were made forever ago to make Mages not suck.
It's fine, it still does damage to the mage, unlock stupidly powerful skills like Body of Isep. Invocations and these things were made to balance mages so they could survive and be decent in combat in the past. Like why Lahzarus Wind and Greaper were added to make it so you wouldn't be a sitting duck after spending 6M to invoke, and then most likely have it break right in your face afterward because it wasn't hard to even break it in the first place.
This honestly doesn't need a nerf, at all.
Re: Invocation Breaking - Rendar - 12-07-2014
It is next to IMPOSSIBLE to break an invocation, Ryu. To have a decent chance at breaking an Invocation on a mage with 80 WIL, which isn't hard to get...
Let's assume 200 damage, depending on whether or not invocation trait is busted or not, it's either a 20% chance, or a 60% chance to bust it.
200 damage in one hit. That is a LOT.
Compare it to the average person who may deal... 100, it's either nonexistant to break it, or it's about 10%.
Yes a 10% chance to break an invocation is totally fair whenever you deal 1/4th of the person's health in a hit.