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+--- Thread: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? (/showthread.php?tid=3400)
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Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Snake - 09-07-2016
So, how is Stat Inflict vs Stat Resistance calculated?
+2% per 1 SKI
+1% per 1 WIL
versus
+2% per 1 SAN
+1% per FAI
That means only Light ATK users can resist luck-infliction statuses? I remember LUC was also factored in the math before, why it was even removed?
This also means that one person with Black Bubble or a vial with Black Water can nullify the other's Stat Resistances because Black Water reduces FAI to 0.
This is easily the less accessible percentage in the game, and this is not good at all.
So why not add LUC to both again?
+1% per 1 LUC for both Infliction/Resistance.
Re: Stat Infliction, is should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Exxy - 09-07-2016
The only issue I see would be that most Mages probably build for Luck as well now (since Overload can now crit).
So for non-FAI users it would still be 4 vs. 3 (as in percents).
Tempted to say make Infliction for Luck +0.5% per 1.
Re: Stat Infliction, is should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Rendar - 09-07-2016
I've had people resist my affliction rate. You have to remember, evokers (which is mostly what started this salt thread because "MUH WIND SLASHER"
, don't get Dark Invasion and Payback, which is +40% affliction. Defenders get their anti status, fai, san.The issue comes where, mostly, corrupted, humans, and mechs have 0 reason to take any sanctity. Those races just need to have some other stat apply instead for their resistance on that front.
Otherwise? I see literally nothing wrong with affliction chance. It can be countered, real easy.
Re: Stat Infliction, is should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Chaos - 09-08-2016
The only 'luck' involved is the RNG, where this formula is concerned.
That being said, Status Infliction/Resist is perfectly balanced as it stands. We don't need to add even more variables into it.
Re: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Snake - 09-08-2016
-Nobody builds FAI but Light ATK users or Curates.
-Devotion only triggers in a 5% chance maximum.
-And we lack Light ATK dependent autohits/skills/spells outside Curate, BK or Monk. (Latter two are still not going to get a high FAI because of the bad scalings.)
-FAI-reliant people's (people who trade WIL for FAI) FP can be DELETED away if anything (read: dark water tiles) reduces FAI to 0.
-FAI can be dropped to 0 with one item/magic, this can't be resisted or counterplayed. Especially now that a Hexer is able to cover the whole map with dark water tiles thanks to the Talent revamp, AND, destroy Sanctuary tiles with Galren Magaisendo.
tl;dr It's the most unreliable stat to put points on.
SAN is 'limited' to certain races. So a Vampire, who needs SAN to get +10 to their Vampiric Crest, will always have 135+ resistance, while a Corrupted, who screams at APT increasing their SAN, will always have 10 to 0 resistance.
Most of the time I see something around the 150-160s vs 20s-10s in the luck-based RNG, is it even fair the way it is, like, really? Sure, Hexer's made to be a pain in the ass and they can debuff the enemy stat resist to 0 if they want, and for the other things, though?
I'd love if there was a cap of 85% in the difference at the RNG math, then. If not, Exxy's idea is fair enough. 0.5% per 1 point in LUC for crying out loud.
This is mostly at how people can opt to base their Infliction on either SKI or WIL, both are useful stats. SAN and FAI are not. Adding LUC to it would make the resistance a little more accessible to all races, because it's the most used stat for being so useful in general.
Why bother making it ''RNG chance'' and naming it 'luck-based' when the inflictions are always above 100% versus everybody but 2 or 3 races, anyway?
Re: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Rendar - 09-08-2016
Okay. I can hear you out here screaming about this. And you raise a very valid arguement.
Dark water tiles.
These are pretty much the end-all-be-all. Though the scenario you discuss (of sanctuary being useless because galren + magaisendo) isn't something that often comes up due to the fact that hexer + evoker combo isn't something that's really worth it. Usually. Now, I can get to looking at certain things here and give my opinion.
Dark water just flat out murdering FAI is bad. Really bad. It makes the stat, as a whole, a null point. Drops FP by a shitton if it's used as an opening attack. All around, it's good. TOO good considering it also afflicts with silence. This is the first change. Dark water now removes up to 75% of the attacker's water attack, OR 75% of the Defender's FAI. Whichever is lower.
This change would make Dark Water less slaughterable, and give it some counterplay. Though, the numbers likely will need to be adjusted. ((Probably 66% of the attacker's water attack? idk))
Adding a cap to status infliction is also a great idea! However, I would like to see it added in a slightly different way. Namely that payback doesn't give a fuck for it. So if you already have 85% chance to afflict. PAYBACK will raise it beyond that. Karma's a bitch, etc.
Re: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Exxy - 09-08-2016
I would much rather this not turn into a discussion on Faith and Dark Water tiles (that honestly seems like another topic in and of itself).
But yes, a cap for chance would be nice (assuming it gets the "Dev-go" signal). The only question would be how does it apply? Before or after the deductions made between Inflict and Resists?
Re: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Snake - 09-08-2016
Yep, Rendar got it right now, that's what I'd really want.
And Exxy, it's always good to solve two pretty terrible problems with one topic imo, even if this makes it a little bit 'dysorganized'. FAI is still one of the stats that ultimately define the real problem here.
And the idea is, lets say someone has 200 stat infliction and the other has 0. Instead of having 200% success infliction chance, they will have a maximum of 85% because of the cap. And the only way to have 100%+ is being a Hexer.
If the enemy is debuffed with Payback, the chances will simply add to the infliction after the cap instead of debuffing the enemy's stat resistance, making it 115%. And having above 100% in this instance is pretty fair, since Hexers are supposed to be toxic to fight against.
Re: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Neus - 09-09-2016
Seems silly to expect the game to have a hard cap on status infliction just because you want a chance to avoid statuses despite investing very little/nothing to avoid them, and fits into the whole 'I want my character to be good at everything' issue we had before GR.
Dark Water might be a more valid point of contention but not in the way Sderg is suggesting. It'd make more sense to just give Dark Water a LV that it reduces Faith by, or make it only become 'active' at the end of the round it's created, so you can't combo Black Bubble with a status spell so easily (I think the Dark Water item itself is fine, more or less).
Re: Stat Infliction, it should even be called 'luck-based' anymore? - Snake - 09-09-2016
Dark Water's problems would be solved with both your ideas, at last some counterplay.
Though about 'having to build for Stat Resistance if you want to resist stats'? I won't lie, you got a point there. We really had a lot of Mary Sues pre-GR.
But once again, is it fair for the Corrupted to be so susceptible to elemental damage/stat infliction, just because they're 'virtually' not allowed to have SAN?
Can we atleast get the values reversed then? 2% FAI / 1% SAN or something?