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Tactician Discussion - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Tactician Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=3503)

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Tactician Discussion - Autumn - 10-02-2016

No, not the class, the trait, and yeah this is a topic we've avoided for a while, but I guess thinking about it, this trait is actually a monster to balance around, both for what is to come, and for what is already established.

Though its open to discussion, I feel like the removal of this trait could serve a better purpose than anything else actually, IF everything that relies on it is taken care of first, that being said, everything would need to be handled extremely carefully, here's my thoughts:

First off is the absolute biggest issue: Resists.
A big reason Tactician exists is so that resists don't completely screw over your momentum, hitting a resist at 6m sets you to 2m, which prevents another action entirely, though with 7m you're just prevented from double tapping or using a 4m skill.

A drastic change, but resists would NEED to lose their momentum loss upon being hit for tactician to be removed.

Now that the biggest offender is out of the way, we'd need to move on to the skills that'd basically need to be looked at if tactician was removed as a trait:

Critical Hit Tracking
Critical hit tracking would need to be changed to keep classes synergizing with eachother, dagger dance allows rogues to branch out into non-duelist promotions and yet keep their critical hit momentum, same applies for anyone else.

Critical hits would need to give 2m per swing base

Fleur
Would stay just about the same, but instead of being able to only proc once on one enemy per round, instead it should only proc once per round total, to prevent too much momentum being gained from having multiple enemies around you.

Charge, Shukuchi.
These skills improve your movement ability immensely for 1m, which is a fair trade off, but with 6m that'd be meh because you'd be left at 2m after you move, defeating the purpose of something like heaven kick or charging strike.

These skills would need to become 0m, but have a cooldown of 2 rounds to compensate for their power.

Kensei Skills
All of these skills would need to become 3m with 2 round cooldowns, however, holding a katana reduces that cooldown by 1.

Crane Hop
Personally I think this skill would be fine being 1m again if tactician was removed as a trait, so this is more of a complete buff.

Chimera Stance
The Verglas skill that allows you to combo effectively, a simple fix to this skill would be giving it something similar to reaver's combination fighter.

This skill would need to reduce the momentum cost by 1 for each step (minimum 1) so that it'd be 3/2/1 momentum for a verglas combo.

And some minor tweaks finally, skills that'd just need to be tweaked a little bit.

Flying Dagger for 0m, 2 round cooldown.
Salvage for 0m, no cooldown.
Hand Trigger for 0m, no cooldown (maybe 1)
Power Gradiation for 3m, 2 round cooldown.
Nitrogen Drop for 3m, 2 round cooldown.
Void Gate will need to refund 3m upon being used on another void gate to teleport.
HSDW's tracking would need to be normal again, costing 6m instead of 7m total.

I'd like to hear any thoughts on this matter from just about anyone, and if that this would be a smart enough decision to be able to implement (or in this case, take out)

This is merely a discussion thread though, to discuss the possible what-if's if this happened, and see how people react.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Sawrock - 10-02-2016

If it's worked like this, I could see it being a thing. I'd miss out on double-tapping move to help me close in on long-range characters, though. In addition, I think if Fleur can only proc once per round total, it would no longer need to be a main class only skill.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Esther - 10-02-2016

Alternatively, Tactician can be made into just a base thing everyone gets. Trait removed, base Momentum is 7 from the get-go. No need for complex readjustments in which ~more~ balance problems can surface than we already have.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Akame - 10-02-2016

I guess the change Spoops suggested is fine; however, I fail to see what the problem with 7M Tactician is now. If anything, I agree with Esther.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Autumn - 10-02-2016

I see your points, and prefer 7m base over everything else, but if it would need be to remove tact, then I was making sure that all bases are covered first.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Raigen.Convict - 10-02-2016

Since dev is lazy and i'm done attempting to get things changed with him, let's go the easy route and just have 7 m be base, done.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Snake - 10-02-2016

>dev is lazy
Nigga, he's just too busy to deal with your shit. Don't forget he works ALONE. >:U
Hail Neus Uchiha.

Anyway, nothing wrong with removing Tactician and setting base momentum to 7. Mostly because the double-tap of things that 'should' be double-tappable.

Like WO when you're grindmaging, or just walking to cover a distance.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Esther - 10-03-2016

Any trait which every character must buy, probably shouldn't be a trait, but a base part of the ruleset instead.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Raigen.Convict - 10-07-2016

"Esther" Wrote:Any trait which every character must buy, probably shouldn't be a trait, but a base part of the ruleset instead.
Coulden't agree more.

Re: Tactician Discussion - Autumn - 10-11-2016

When I say tactician removal, I think it'd be better to go to 6 and accomodate for everything else, the problem with tactician is not that it's a mandatory trait.

That being said, it could really only work if everything was accomodated for first.