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+--- Thread: Player Agency: In Airides defense. (/showthread.php?tid=3699)
Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-20-2016
Airide, The player of Krono-The tattoed butler is currently in quite the conundrum.
Airide -as Krono- Has committed many misdemeanors on his character, Never once has his character murdered, at his worst he committed one act of arson.
Chaos-The GM-Current man in charges of all things guardy- Has slated Airides character Krono for execution.
The issue
Airide doesn't wish for his character to be Killed off. Myself and others think this is a breach of player agency.
Reasonings
*Airide doesn't want his character to die, he just wants to roleplay escaping to laws end or something.
*He originally wanted roleplay reforming his criminal character, but no guard ever attempted the roleplay to get this started despite airide's wishes.
*Airide was force arrested against without the choice to flee the scene by two guard players, He wasn't defeated in combat or anything, he was just bullied into accepting a party invite to fort arjav, He had no idea chaos would then slate his character for execution.
*Chaos cites and warning that krono would be considered for execution post march 2016 on ALL future violations, Airide cannot find proof of this warning anywhere.
*Krono was arrested for using a donation item to spook some people who were meming pretty hard in IC.
*Chaos used a an old event that happened 10 IC years ago. an assassination attempt event he ran on the emperor as basis to punish people for using the monster mask donation item.
Airide should be allowed have his character stay alive, his character isn't an extremist murderer or revolutionary, just a punk that has committed quite a few misdemeanors over the OOC year. If you actually consider the amount of ic time that occured between his misdemeanors he isn't an actual heavy criminal considering an IC year happens about the same time frame as an IRL month.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~please no flames just discussions.
http://sl2.wikia.com/wiki/Server_Rules
-my opinions
I feel that the guards that arrested Airide were out of line in the god modding degree
also I feel that as of
1b - Forcing death onto another person's character falls under the "no godmodding" rule. Only the person who's playing the character can ensure that the character is killed off.
should precede the GM's right to kill of criminals due to the fact that this is an extremely heated topic and the criminal in question never actually committed a crime that resulted in the direct loss of life.
I don't feel that the Setting or the empire is harsh is an excuse or reason for chaos to be in the right, due to the fact that this stance of the empire was created through chaos's direct control and influence over the guard system.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - MakeshiftWalrus - 11-20-2016
Quote:Airide -as Krono- Has committed many misdemeanors on his character, Never once has his character murdered, at his worst he committed one act of arson.
This is technically true. But he did attempt to several times. It should be mentioned that the act of arson was upon a house with three people inside; two adults and a baby, with the intent to kill them.
Quote:Airide doesn't wish for his character to be Killed off. Myself and others think this is a breach of player agency.
I disagree. The topic of killing characters is an extremely controversial one, yes, but there comes a time when one must look at things purely from an IC perspective, without being biased by whatever thoughts you hold OOCly. The scenario is fairly simple, really. Krono is a known criminal who has been in jail multiple times. He was given a warning that he would be executed if he was arrested again. Completely and utterly ICly, because the Empire is and will likely always be a place that ultimately favours execution rather than rehabilitation.
Yes. It does suck that he's losing a character he enjoys playing. Yes. It does suck that it had to be over something as utterly dumb as using a Mask of the Night Lord ICly. But IC is IC. And it should, ultimately, be respected. Anything else would be meta-gaming.
Quote:*Airide was force arrested against without the choice to flee the scene by two guard players, He wasn't defeated in combat or anything, he was just bullied into accepting a party invite to fort arjav, He had no idea chaos would then slate his character for execution.
Krono was asked to follow them to the fort. And he did so willingly. Again, ICly. He could have attempted to flee, if he had wanted to, but did not take the opportunity.
But I'd be more than happy to see evidence of this supposed bullying posted in this thread, because that certainly is not something that should be condoned of.
Quote:*Chaos cites and warning that krono would be considered for execution post march 2016 on ALL future violations, Airide cannot find proof of this warning anywhere.
That does not mean the warning was not issued. It was.
Quote:*Krono was arrested for using a donation item to spook some people who were meming pretty hard in IC.
A dumb situation. But whether or not the item in question was a donation or not is irrelevant. IC is IC.
Quote:*Chaos used a an old event that happened 10 IC years ago. an assassination attempt event he ran on the emperor as basis to punish people for using the monster mask donation item.
This is just flat out wrong. That event was created and run by Sawrock, before he was even appointed a GM, with the help of a helluva lot of normal players.
Quote:Airide should be allowed have his character stay alive, his character isn't an extremist murderer or revolutionary, just a punk that has committed quite a few misdemeanors over the OOC year. If you actually consider the amount of ic time that occured between his misdemeanors he isn't an actual heavy criminal considering an IC year happens about the same time frame as an IRL month.
Crimes are still crimes. And Krono's list is rather extensive.
Quote:I feel that the guards that arrested Airide were out of line in the god modding degree
I disagree. They performed inside the rules of how guards operate.
Quote:1b - Forcing death onto another person's character falls under the "no godmodding" rule. Only the person who's playing the character can ensure that the character is killed off.
should precede the GM's right to kill of criminals due to the fact that this is an extremely heated topic and the criminal in question never actually committed a crime that resulted in the direct loss of life.
I don't feel that the Setting or the empire is harsh is an excuse or reason for chaos to be in the right, due to the fact that this stance of the empire was created through chaos's direct control and influence over the guard system.
I disagree entirely. A GM is the rules, as stated by the very page you refer to.
Quote:1 - When it comes down to it, what Dev or the GMs say are the rules. Below are simply guidelines that will help you avoid trouble. Do not try to use this list of rules as an excuse for your behavior. (For instance, saying "But that wasn't in the rules!" will not get you out of trouble.)
A GM in general isn't there to make a bother out of the ordinary player's day. They're present to supervise and make decisions which ultimately was the case here. It shouldn't come as a surprise that Krono is getting executed after the warnings he's been given, nor should it come as a surprise that Chaos is simply doing his job and duty as a GM.
What has happened in this whole mess is a lot of OOC mixing in with IC, just like it did when Romek was getting axed. As I said previously, there comes a time when one must simply separate the two, regardless of how much you hate it OOCly. Is it unfair ICly, to Krono, the character? No. He broke the law enough times to warrant it.
Accept the consequences.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-20-2016
We don't keep a logged list of formerly run events anywhere All I remember from that OLD event that has forever stained the use of a donor item.
Airide wasn't informed well enough, chaos said he was warned, Airide acted in a way that proved he wasn't aware.
Crimes are crimes, BUT this is a god damn role playing game not medieval sim 2010, roleplaying is about having fun, killing krono doesn't increase anyones enjoyment, it only negatively affects those against it.
Krono went with them willingly because he was under belief that the citation he was getting back out on the 17th, this was changed on him after he was in jail.
IC is IC is not an excuse to kill someone a character is only the intellectual property of the person who created them, airide had intentions to reform Krono but no guard ever attempted to help him reform.
this is a roleplaying game about having fun, making interesting characters, with little player influence in the world. Airide wants his character live, to escape jail to, go not live in the empire anymore. THAT SHOULD BE IT
It's airides character, him still playing his character doesn't negatively impact you in anyway. His character getting killed negatively affects the enjoyment of the game of those that enjoy his character.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - iStabOreos - 11-20-2016
"MakeshiftWalrus" Wrote:Quote:Airide -as Krono- Has committed many misdemeanors on his character, Never once has his character murdered, at his worst he committed one act of arson.
This is technically true. But he did attempt to several times. It should be mentioned that the act of arson was upon a house with three people inside; two adults and a baby, with the intent to kill them.
First off when I did that I knew full well there was no one in Vintaro's house when Krono burned it down. Who ever told tou otherwise is wrong and was misinformed.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Exxy - 11-20-2016
What Walrus said ultimately covers all of the important bits I think should be said in response but I'd like to add on just a tad bit:
I can't imagine anyone wanting one of their longer-played characters to get the axe but IC actions have IC consequences; Krono has had a LOT of charges placed on him.
Not all of us wanted this, but it's happening. I'm sorry, Airide.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Rendar - 11-20-2016
Empire Logic
"Okay. NEXT TIME YOU GO TO JAIL. YOU'RE DEAD!!!"
"Hey, we're arresting you for forgetting to clean up this one pile of shit after taking your dog out for a walk."
GGWP. Rip Krono
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Sarah54321 - 11-20-2016
"Rendar" Wrote:Empire Logic
"Okay. NEXT TIME YOU GO TO JAIL. YOU'RE DEAD!!!"
"Hey, we're arresting you for forgetting to clean up this one pile of shit after taking your dog out for a walk."
GGWP. Rip Krono
Krono's been arrested without being executed before, just saying.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Rendar - 11-20-2016
Oh, no. I know. I was just making light of the whole situation because SL2 is a joke when it comes to laws 75% of the time.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - MakeshiftWalrus - 11-20-2016
Quote:We don't keep a logged list of formerly run events anywhere All I remember from that OLD event that has forever stained the use of a donor item.
Whether or not this happened ten, or twenty, or fifty years in the past is not relevant. It happened, hence the iffy ruling on the mask. The last time an Emperor was assassinated and remained dead, magic was banned in an entire civilization and remains so until this day.
Quote:Airide wasn't informed well enough, chaos said he was warned, Airide acted in a way that proved he wasn't aware.
As I understand it and has been informed, this is wrong. Multiple guards has informed him of the warning, ICly. If he didn't pay attention, that's simply a fault on his part, unfortunately.
Quote:Crimes are crimes, BUT this is a god damn role playing game not medieval sim 2010, roleplaying is about having fun, killing krono doesn't increase anyones enjoyment, it only negatively affects those against it.
Welcome to realistic role-play. We have consequences here.
Quote:Krono went with them willingly because he was under belief that the citation he was getting back out on the 17th, this was changed on him after he was in jail.
This is wrong. Krono followed them into the fort to be questioned about the situation priorly to getting his sentence.
Quote:IC is IC is not an excuse to kill someone a character is only the intellectual property of the person who created them, -snip-
...Yes it is? Again, that's called consequences. Krono the character may be the property of Airide, but he exists in the game and thus will follow the world's rules, or pay the price, which he is going to, unfortunately.
Quote:this is a roleplaying game about having fun, making interesting characters, with little player influence in the world. Airide wants his character live, to escape jail to, go not live in the empire anymore. THAT SHOULD BE IT
Then save him in-game. Not by whining on the forum that it's unfair.
Quote:It's airides character, him still playing his character doesn't negatively impact you in anyway. His character getting killed negatively affects the enjoyment of the game of those that enjoy his character.
It negatively impacts those that care about keeping IC to IC. He messed up. And allowing him to simply leave now purely because he does not want his character to die would be both meta-gaming and god-modding.
And then to Airide.
Quote:First off when I did that I knew full well there was no one in Vintaro's house when Krono burned it down. Who ever told tou otherwise is wrong and was misinformed.
I believe you may be misinformed, yourself. That, or the whole guard, including several GMs are in the wrong.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-20-2016
Its metagaming and godmodding to outright kill him. If you don't let him decide HIS own characters fate himself, that is itself godmodding.
It should be up to him if his character makes a dashing escape or disappears in the night. Its up to Airide to justify how his character survived.