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+--- Thread: Player Agency: In Airides defense. (/showthread.php?tid=3699)
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-22-2016
1) yeah it only ever comes up when this happens, but its not just stuff like this, we only ever want balance changes when we something we don't like and react to it, we only post about something when it lights a spark in us.
2) that'd be nice in all but most people congregate in within the empire's land, almost all events are ran in houses in the empire, have you ever seen people just sitting in chaturanga?, people only use the onigan inn for erp.
The reason I reacted so violently and passionately is that for the most part I've never had any personal interaction with the guard, I don't play criminal like characters, I've never been jailed, I played a guard for like half a month but there was so much corruption back then I quit, so no I didn't have any first hand experiance with it.
and as far as the setting goes, I understand the world has magic, that puts it in a weird place, They are behind the modern world in some aspects, but equal or ahead in others. Its just in no point in human history have we simply had a black and white kill or prison system. Theres always been varied punishments, societal punishments, and reasons on how those punishments came to be
I don't find the empire just killing because it doesn't like to keep its problems around a good reasoning by itself, if there were good reasons they didn't bother with other types of punishments that'd be great to here, it'd make me much happier about the current situation.
Is there a reason the empire doesn't use force labor like other empires we've historically known about, do they have a workforce of undead enslaved below cellsvsch tiring endlessly?
Is there a reason why the empire wouldn't want to use Penal soldiers as the first wave to protect their more valiant and righteous soldiers, They could use an enslaved brigade of soldiers as a first combatant force to push back the snakemen of the argentyle for instance.
Its things like this, I like dev's lore, I like the game, I like the way its growing, but I feel that prison system/punishment system needs to grow more, become more fleshed out, You might see the current system as adequate, lenient, ect, I don't I see the current system as stagnant and simple.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - iStabOreos - 11-22-2016
"Ranylyn" Wrote:1) And yet this ONLY ever comes up when someone is in trouble. I wonder why? If everyone was really so passionate about it, it would come up when things aren't like this. I mean, it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
2) It's Dev's setting. If you want to argue historically accurate, you do realize our world doesn't actually have magic, right? If you disagree so strongly, why not RP in other places than in the Empire?
Your magic is turned off in the prison.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - catabur - 11-22-2016
This thread just divulged into changing the prison system instead of really saying Airide was wronged by the guards.
Devy's left pretty much all of the Guard up to Chaos, so I'm not sure if you should expect an answer from him that wouldn't be something along the lines of "Talk to Chaos about it."
I don't mind fines and I'm pretty sure there was talk of having a mine set up underneath the fort for prisoners to work off their debt to the Empire; but that would require a new map and an update to Ajarv's own. There's talks about plenty of things being added to help stave the boredom for prisoners, but all of these things take time to do and work that few want to pick up.
There's no wars to warrant a prisoner army. And even at that, there wouldn't be enough. Taking Rome for example, they loved to get into a few wars every century. Devy's stated that there have been small conflicts here and there, but the only real wars we've been told are Heaven's Contention and the Sigro-Onigan war. They had about a 200 year difference between each other.
(I'm not good on the lore about snekmen, so I can't comment on that.)
Only a single branch of guards are really allowed to torture prisoners, and considering that the Guard Commander is an ex-Church Knight, I don't think he'd take kindly to torture as punishment. Not to mention everyone would complain that their waifu is mentally scarred forever.
We use magic lava blood, silly.
And the "Old" Guards got pretty corrupted, but I blame most of it on Sderg.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-22-2016
Going off topic here
why is an ex church knight of lispool the country, a guard leader in the country of sigrogana.... I don't get that all?
also wouldn't a ex church knight be more of the Trial by ordeal than execution kind of guy?
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-22-2016
@catabur So that we are on the same page let me explain my thought process on all of this so far
I posted an emotionally charged defense of airide with main point of player agency being used.
the rebuttal was that consequences should matter
I agreed that consequences should matter, I then realized once calming down that the reason I had truly gotten upset was that system of consequences didn't add up, that they should be more varied and fitting to the crime.
people then bring up that the lore and combination of who runs the guards don't allow for varied punishments.
Something needs to change then
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Ranylyn - 11-22-2016
Not what I meant about magic. I just meant that the world isn't based on historical accuracy. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Anyways, Lolzy, while I do understand completely (I've even worked a mild exaggeration about the old guard corruption into one of my character's backstory, so trust me, I know exactly where you're coming from,) the fact remains that if more people who disagreed with the empire's laws actually dispersed, the other places would not be ghost towns. The fact that everyone congregates in Cellsvich/Arena is due to the community itself, after all. It's a smaller community and it makes sense to wait around there to find RP. I do it, everyone does it. I just mean that if more people were true to their characters ("This place sucks, I'm out," etc) we could realistically start to see some roleplay pop up in other locations. I, myself, have some characters who spend more time in Lispool and Chaturanga (and previously Tannis and Dormeho before the raids, GG) than anywhere else, because it's just their character to do so.
As for the Empire's reasoning, also consider their stance on Shaitans. The Empire is similar to modern day China in that regard. They don't mind skewing (read: outright lying and silencing the people who correct them) the facts if it means keeping things running smoothly, and would rather their people feel safe than worrying about crazed remnants of missing loved ones showing up to kill them. It's hard to really empathize with them if you're from a country that's educated about the facts and all, but from a more skeptical standpoint, it's not hard to understand their reasoning, even if it does show disrespect for their citizens' intelligence levels.
While in some areas, the technology may be advanced due to magic (I mean, the Salamander structure probably sounds like a wet dream to our own renewable energy researchers, for example) we also need to consider how slowly our own laws and society are to catch up to our own technology. Some of our laws are still basically back in the walkman era, with several hurdles before catching up to the modern Internet. In that regard, it just always seemed like common sense to me that the laws in Sigrogana would be old as well, if that makes sense? I mean, if the Emperor is over 300 years old, odds are he still has a fair amount of the same kinds of ideas as back then, so the laws wouldn't see massive reforms, etc.
Anyways, sorry if I caused any offense with the tantrum comments. Honestly, no matter how frustrated I get seeing these threads pop up, that's still no excuse to be rude, like I was. Thank you for continuing to explain your points instead of devolving into a pissing match with me. That would have just made us both look like infants. And we're better than that.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Lolzytripd - 11-22-2016
Its alright ran but....the bait to hard...
you compared to the empire to china
china used forced labor prison camps to fund its economy.............................................................long story about unethical china later.
but yeah I'm glad we didn't over boil
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Ranylyn - 11-22-2016
No worries, man, I know exactly what you mean. I was hesitant to use the China comparison, but as far as Shaitans go, it was just too apt. Their population is woefully misinformed in order to maintain control, after all. I could go on all day about how I dislike details about how they run things, but... yeah.
Anyways, that aside, *high fives for an end to that bickering* Sorry again.
Re: Player Agency: In Airides defense. - Slydria - 11-22-2016
Well, like Catabur said, this topic has diverted a lot from the original post which was whether Krono's arrest and plans for execution were fair, which has been thoroughly discussed by those for and against. And since Chaos has replied, I don't think there's any more reason to keep this one going.
If you still want to talk about the prison, arrests or guards, I really think it should be it's own thread.