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+--- Thread: Orkam Drespam (/showthread.php?tid=4022)
Orkam Drespam - Chaos - 01-10-2017
On paper, this skill is a rather important clutch for Boxer: Without it, a Boxer is permanently outplayed by anyone who can step two diagonals away. However, in recent times, players have taken to using this skill as a one-trick pony, constantly spamming it (in combination with Nachbeben) in order to not only damage a whole enemy party, but also prevent anyone from approaching a far-away teammate.
This admittedly brain-dead setup is brutally effective, capable of pinning down an entire team and constantly bombarding them with little to no counterplay available for the other side. Yes, Orkam's range depends on Sturm LV, but it's not too difficult to hit a solid range within 2 rounds.
I've been a constant defender of Boxer's unique balance, but I think this spamming of Orkam Drehen is completely ridiculous, and needs to be dealt with ASAP. My initial suggestion is as follows:
-Orkam Drehen gains a 2~3 Round Cooldown.
Unfortunately, while this will keep Orkam from being spammed to death, this will gut Boxer's mobility to the point where it's laughably easy to out-zone the Boxer. Which is why I also want to suggest this:
Quote:Sprint
5 FP / 3M
(Boxer Skill; no Sturm generated)
The Boxer dashes to a location within range (based on Rank), maintaining their Schwarz Sturm LV in the process. However, you can't use any Geist Schritt skills for 1 Round afterwards. (Sprint can't be activated while under the effect of a Geist Schritt.)
Rank 1: Range: 6 Tiles
Rank 2: Range: 7 Tiles
Rank 3: Range: 8 Tiles
Re: Orkam Drespam - Neus - 01-10-2017
Sprint basically means Boxer can now use Movement as a Boxer skill, which isn't really a great idea.
Re: Orkam Drespam - Kameron8 - 01-10-2017
Essentially, this is all accurate. Boxers have no incentive to build anything but tanky, so trying to kill the maelstrom of death that keeps sucking in your team is often difficult, if not entirely unfeasible with the teammates they're working with. Giving the skill a cooldown is a good additional tweak in the right direction.
Re: Orkam Drespam - Autumn - 01-10-2017
I mostly just want a cooldown on the skill because like Kam said, they're just whirling storms of death still even with the damage nerfs.
This'd alleviate the whole Spam Orkam until you win any team fight mentality.
Re: Orkam Drespam - MegaBlues - 01-10-2017
This skill really does need a cooldown. GS3 still exists if you want to chase someone down.
Re: Orkam Drespam - Kojiro Kamai - 01-10-2017
I'm skeptical about giving it a cooldown... If the problem is just pulling all the enemies... Why not make it pull less for each enemy in the radius? Or keep it the same and change it to 4M from rank 4 onwards? (I don't use boxers, tbh. But I ask thee to think about the PvE too xD)
Re: Orkam Drespam - Snake - 01-10-2017
[strike]I'm completely 'not' skeptical here, it does need a cooldown because it does a lot much for practically nothing. And seeing a damned >Boxer< just spin around like they're Neji Hyuuga is just too silly to watch in fights, because people love to abuse and spam the OP, you know.
But, we do have PvE here, so can we have the cooldown to work in a special way? The higher the Schwarz Sturm, the longer the cooldown. So it can encourage the Boxer to use Orkam Drehen in a crucial moment where his Schwarz Sturm will make the usage of the skill count.
5 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 1 round cooldown.
6 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 2 round cooldown.
7 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 3 round cooldown.
8 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 4 round cooldown.
Though, I'm not as much afraid on PvE because Nachbeben can accomplish the AoE damage-dealing role just fine. If this slows down the Boxer, it's because it is necessary. Thanks to that, SL2 is slowly becoming a bodybuilder fighting club instead of swords, books and sandals vs guns, staves and knives, like it used to be.[/strike]
Re: Orkam Drespam - Chaos - 01-10-2017
"Neus" Wrote:Sprint basically means Boxer can now use Movement as a Boxer skill, which isn't really a great idea.It's not a great idea, but just slapping a cooldown on Orkam Drehen alone will make countering Boxers a simple matter of, 'stay on an immediate diagonal from the Boxer'. The class relies a little too much on Orkam Drehen, thanks to Korz not being re-sizable and Geist Schritt forcing the Boxer to move at least three tiles. Something needs to be done to cover the hole that Orkam will leave.
But what about 4M? Then the skill is used once a turn. It might help a bit, but it won't stop people from spamming the hell out of the skill in the long run.
But what about less pull? Orkam will still be spammed, which will still pull everyone well away from any of the Boxer's teammates. The issue here is how Orkam Drehen can be spammed, not the pulling power.
But what about PvE? If the cooldown would apply only to PvP, that'd be fine. But for the time being, Orkam spam is a little too much to simply overlook in PvP.
"Snake" Wrote:But, we do have PvE here, so can we have the cooldown to work in a special way? The higher the Schwarz Sturm, the longer the cooldown. So it can encourage the Boxer to use Orkam Drehen in a crucial moment where his Schwarz Sturm will make the usage of the skill count.I would not put Orkam above a 3 Round Cooldown, but slapping one down after a certain Sturm LV has been breached would be possible. That still raises the question about the dreaded diagonal, however.[/quote]
5 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 1 round cooldown.
6 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 2 round cooldown.
7 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 3 round cooldown.
8 Schwarz Sturm = Orkam Drehen in 4 round cooldown.
Re: Orkam Drespam - Snake - 01-10-2017
[strike]Or we can have all Geist Schritts to be fully resizeable from range 1 to range 6, though if the squares moved are less than 3, you get no Geist Schritt effects such as the 'attack counter/skill shield/follow-up', if the problem is someone trolling a Boxer by standing 1-2 tiles in their diagonals?[/strike]
I HAVE A BETTER IDEA.
It's pretty damn simple way to make a skill make it's user think twice before going trigger happy on it. Making it costy, of course! In League of Legends, there is a char that can hook another one by throwing a skillshot (the grab) to hook the enemy over, and easily turn a fight into a 2v1 situation. (Blitzcrank, for reference.) His Q, Rocket Grab, is one of the most Mana costy techniques in the whole game in the early levels. Thanks to the giant-ass cost, smart players prefer to save up their Mana, because whenever there's a moment they SHOULD be using the skill, it will be available and they will have enough Mana to use it.
So, translating this to SL2.
If you bump up Orkam Drehen's cost per rank, making it balance in a way 'The weaker, the less FP it will need to consume.', players who decide to use it at Rank 5 will need to play more smart with their tactics instead of setting their Auto Keyboard to "2 + Z" with Orkam on the #2 hotbar slot.
I think this simple way is the best, adding a cooldown to this skill, which first, is mainly made so people can't cheese Boxers by going to their diagonals, and second, that doesn't 'benefit' much in the Boxer's rythm, Schwarz Sturm wise, and third, needs atleast 4 Schwars Sturm levels to actually work as intended, would screw up and make what Chaos have been telling us from the start since the second we all started salting at it.
Right now, Orkam Drehen is WEIRD, FP wise. Look:
![[Image: 17880aca565b4c1187d5c34779cc59c2.png]](http://image.prntscr.com/image/17880aca565b4c1187d5c34779cc59c2.png)
Sure, I can understand why the FP diminishes as the Rank goes up, but 'why'? What I can't understand is why low damage, low pulls equals to a higher cost, balance wise.
In my opinion, this should be reversed or even increased, the skill does a lot for it's low cost, and Expand Ice doesn't, though it costs like, 42 FP to use... So so, if my hype allowed me to think properly after finding the damn solution to this nightmarish problem, people will need to be careful with their choices for now on.
Quote:Orkam Drehen:
--Rank 1: 33 FP, 75% Scaled WPN Atk, Pull: 4 Tiles
--Rank 2: 36 FP, 85% Scaled WPN Atk, Pull: 5 Tiles
--Rank 3: 39 FP, 95% Scaled WPN Atk, Pull: 5 Tiles
--Rank 4: 42 FP, 105% Scaled WPN Atk, Pull: 6 Tiles
--Rank 5: 45 FP, 115% Scaled WPN Atk, Pull: 6 Tiles, +1 extra Schwars Sturm
Re: Orkam Drespam - Raigen.Convict - 01-12-2017
I like Kunais idea of bumping up the FP cost... But here's one even better... For a certain number of rounds you gain a stacking debuff that essentially works like Kog Maw's ultimate from League, the FP cost rises per use.
First cost is something like 30-40 fp, then it bumps up to 50-60 fp, and so on to a cap until you wait 2 rounds before using it again.
This will give us a solution to stop the spam of this ability being so rampant while also allowing its use in crucial situations like this to continue.