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+--- Thread: Eviter (/showthread.php?tid=4429)
Eviter - Grandpa - 04-03-2017
Tanking, while more difficult to do now, is still something prominent through various other means. Eviter is a big offender of that for a few reasons. For one, just about anyone can use it. And while that usually would be a good thing, there's no real downside to doing so (especially in the case divine weapons). That's a free 50% less damage if people attack you from the front, which most people won't now because things like Eviter and Stalemate exist. Unless of course they're some form of ranged, or a fist user. Or they go for the classic serial buttstabbing. All of these could at least be partially solved through a few changes.
The first, changing Eviter to 5 per Rank + 50% Scaled CEL and when successful, reduce damage by the Weapon's Current Durability% (or 40% if Divine). This would make Eviter a bit more difficult to get, make it a little bit less effective unless you build for weapon durability, and make it more in line with the other parry skill (Stalemate). The goal here is to take another method of DR away from people trying to stack as much DR as possible, while keeping it for those that would need it (IE, dodgy characters/various DPS characters).
Re: Eviter - Autumn - 04-03-2017
I can support this change, it'll help against the utter horror of a meta that is Ghost/Hexer tanks with tons upon tons of DR
Re: Eviter - Snake - 04-03-2017
I only support if the reduction is 10 + (Weapon Durability)%, that aside, don't see why not. It won't ruin the skill itself.
Re: Eviter - Kameron8 - 04-04-2017
Given that Ghosts -- and duelists in general -- do almost unarguably the most damage in the game, I'm definitely behind this change. The "free" reduction just for looking at someone is a bit much. At least this way heavy Cel investment is needed to hit the current power level.
Re: Eviter - Lolzytripd - 04-04-2017
I'd argue that void assassins do more damage. They too get free reduction, evasion and voidveil.
Re: Eviter - Kameron8 - 04-04-2017
They used to. You might be able to squeeze a little more out with dagger dance and Tessens, or lucky Vorpals, but that's not too relevant to the larger discussion.
Comparison aside, Evasion also requires heavy Cel investment to function, and doesn't work at all against Hit builds with basic attacks. Eviter works on Autohits and Normal hits, without an evade check, unless someone walks behind you for half their turn. This just makes it harder to pair that with a truckload of defense.
Re: Eviter - Shujin - 04-04-2017
Or use burnup/leaping lizard winged serpernt(getting behind them for 1 or 0) or other funny things, like Hanging or whatever other movement skill of similiar class (crane hop, jet pack, what have you)
Evasion might need a dodge check aswell but they also get a fuckton more crit/evade thanks to the winds/voidveil/the ability to steal all the powerful evade buffs and what not. So Yeah in raw damage they clearly surpass Duellist, also more reliable in damage reduction overall since evasion works against pretty much everything,not to forget the fact daggers aren´t parryable making them also actually capable to attack from the front with no worry in the world(all that from a semi main-class skill). but I digress.
Eviter was always a nice to have skill but easily avoided, I would personally prefer the option of the damage it reduces getting lowered by the weapon durability, cause I feel thats a cooler feature and that you in reality almost never honestly need to go around a person to waste half your turn. I mean it´s like saying an Basicattack build: "But Stalement counters all my stuff even from the sides and they have already so high crit evade so I can´t even build up Combos easily".
In short, I believe it´s a fine skill as it is, damage reduction is the thing that might be to high but thats probably going to change when ever grazing hits are a thing. So lowered reduction with lowered durability should be fine.
or a Honor or War Talent that actually loweres the chance to trigger a bit when attacking from the front.
Also anoher worry I have about this:
If we keep bringing all the good Damage reductions skill in connection with Cel, and even grazing hits become a thing, then we go back to the age of Dodge tanks since Cel will be with no doubt the best tank stat with serval other side effects. I kinda don´t want to go back there.
Re: Eviter - Autumn - 04-04-2017
Thats not at all how it'd work, hell right now building a dodge tank isn't the most difficult thing to do but it requires a lot of modifiers and sacrifices in other stat areas, as long as most swords/axes/spears remain as STR scaling then the dodge tankiness will never get out of hand without sacrificing too much in other areas such as GUI or RES, which are both equally important.
Eviter is a skill I sort of dislike because the duelist meta is pick ghost and go tanky since they have so many damage resistances (wraithguard at least procs off of LUC%), hell, most of the kenseis just go tanky anyways too, there isn't much point to picking up CEL on a duelist for anything other than initiative because these days dodge has a really hard time beating hit without really good dodge buffs.
Re: Eviter - Akame - 04-04-2017
I'm for this for reasons Spoops just said. ^
Re: Eviter - Shujin - 04-05-2017
Quote:CEL on a duelist for anything other than initiative because these days dodge has a really hard time beating hit without really good dodge buffs.
This. I believe that is more the reason why a duellist isn´t going Cel, cause they won´t really be able to dodge anyway. Atleast if they don´t sub Rouge for all the dodge buffs. I feel that THIS is more the problem then it actually is eviter.
How about we make it like.
Rank*2= base chance to trigger eviter+ current dura
and the damage reduction is equal=current dura.
Should nerf it enough I believe. but I am indiffernt towards it. I just don´t like everything being Cel just because it´s currently a bit underwhlming, i would instead like to buff the stat itself.