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+--- Thread: Evasion/Hit (/showthread.php?tid=4652)
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Evasion/Hit - Neus - 06-14-2017
Anyone feel like putting in the effort to detail some different setups in relation to hit/evade? Specifically I'm looking for a few different setups.
1) Average Joe Setup - This is something that a majority of class setups can achieve with certain item/talent/etc combos.
2) Slightly Specialized - This is similar to the above but it might have a class/skill/item that is specifically useful for Hit/Evade.
3) Crackpot Mode - The strongest combination of skills, status effects, items, classes, etc. that will lead to the highest Hit/Evade possible.
4) Crackpot Mode Lite - Similar to the above, but it should be the highest possible Hit/Evade you can get without a lot of free turns. I'd say the highest possible amount you could achieve on your first/second turn at the most.
I'm mainly interested in this data because of certain additions/changes I want to do in the future.
Re: Evasion/Hit - Soapy - 06-14-2017
"Neus" Wrote:Crackpot Mode Lite - Similar to the above, but it should be the highest possible Hit/Evade you can get without a lot of free turns. I'd say the highest possible amount you could achieve on your first/second turn at the most.
![[Image: vByPV7z.png]](http://i.imgur.com/vByPV7z.png)
Re: Evasion/Hit - Autumn - 06-15-2017
"Neus" Wrote:3) Crackpot Mode - The strongest combination of skills, status effects, items, classes, etc. that will lead to the highest Hit/Evade possible.
With 56 scaled SKI and 48 scaled LUC, on a destiny duelist with armor of eyes, staff of eyes, but no buffs whatsoever, not even sharpen.
![[Image: 6531818679.png]](https://puu.sh/wkjEm/6531818679.png)
With a Hisen
![[Image: 1f4ef19948.png]](https://puu.sh/wkjeT/1f4ef19948.png)
"Neus" Wrote:3) Crackpot Mode - The strongest combination of skills, status effects, items, classes, etc. that will lead to the highest Hit/Evade possible.
Not necessarily the most dodge, but its up there, this is my Oracle.
![[Image: a14d1ce139.png]](https://puu.sh/wkjQS/a14d1ce139.png)
They have a lot of CEL and 40 LUC, and achieve 226 evade out of battle, this doesn't include modifiers though, in addition to this evade she gets:
+30 from fortune wind
+22 from oracle passive while in 1 range. (Conversely, -22 outside of 1 range)
+14 from Agile Feet.
leading up to 262 evade, with only 3m cost, cause fortune wind is my only buff.
Currently, as you can see, hit stacking almost always beats evade stacking, in terms of passives, in terms of buffs, evade stacking can sometimes win, if you're stacking fear/souther wind/distortion/fortune wind etc. all together at once.
Re: Evasion/Hit - Lolzytripd - 06-15-2017
Evade needs buffed, but please not to pre nerf kensei levels
Re: Evasion/Hit - Joseph Jostar - 06-15-2017
Crackpot Mode/Lite?
- Leporidae Spellthief/Demon Hunter
-- Leporidae and Demon Hunter combine for MASSIVE mobility
-- Cobra Stance for shenanigans
- 33 Evade from a maxed breezecloth ninja armor with 'good fit'
- 61 Scaled CEL/LUC (https://i.gyazo.com/05fea2d0a1ac91693c32a4f82eedaa62.png)
- Winds up with about 233 Evade pre-fight if i get Old Scarfur's blessing maxed
In battle, 35 Evade from Fortune Wind, 32 from Southern Wind, and 30 from Distortion can be done within 2 turns (even if you take an action to move/jump to the southern edge of the field). If the 6% from Afterimage calculates after that, it totals up to nearly 350 Evade
Grain of salt: This is a build that was designed from the ground up to ONLY dodge and be useful for very little else, though considering there's fans that let you cast off of luc and cel, it's probably not too far from viable if someone wanted to be shenanigan-esque.
Re: Evasion/Hit - Grandpa - 06-15-2017
How evade is now, you either go crackpot mode or you just can't dodge things. You either build for it completely and gimp yourself in other ways or you try and fail to be decent at other things and dodge at the same time.
Re: Evasion/Hit - Kameron8 - 06-15-2017
"Neus" Wrote:4) Crackpot Mode Lite - Similar to the above, but it should be the highest possible Hit/Evade you can get without a lot of free turns. I'd say the highest possible amount you could achieve on your first/second turn at the most.
As a Ghost/MG:
52 Skill, 53 Luck, 22 Faith, 35 Guile, +13 Hit from shotgun parts, Armor of Eyes, Staff of Eyes, Fitting Form, Blessed Magical Nova gives a default (without buffs) hit chance of 356.
![[Image: aVqoyVq.png]](http://i.imgur.com/aVqoyVq.png)
This goes up to 373 with Sharpen, 387 after tagging them with a non-charged rank 1 magnet shell, 417 with Focused Mind, and some soft-cap reduced bonus from rising game. Overcharged magnet shell can impose a 12 cel penalty, and cripple leg can take 5.
Re: Evasion/Hit - Kameron8 - 06-15-2017
"Neus" Wrote:4) Crackpot Mode Lite - Similar to the above, but it should be the highest possible Hit/Evade you can get without a lot of free turns. I'd say the highest possible amount you could achieve on your first/second turn at the most.
VA/Kensei, 71 Celerity, 52 Luck, Agile Feet, Afterimage, Sarasha Gi, and Kenki. Using the previous unbuffed hit calculation from my gunner instead of the Stat screen (which ignores things like Sarasha Gi), it's a passive 243 evade. With Yomidori, evade is raised to 267 (It should be 273, but things will fall apart without a consistent metric).
With Southern Wind, Eastern Wind, and Absolute Fear (Empowered Kenki), the total evade is 304. This assumes the opponent has the Bravery talent maxed out, since every hit build will.
"Neus" Wrote:3) Crackpot Mode - The strongest combination of skills, status effects, items, classes, etc. that will lead to the highest Hit/Evade possible.
With Southern Wind, Eastern Wind, Absolute Fear (Empowered Kenki), Blotch (self), Blotch (enemy), Yomidori, the total evade is 400. Blind can take this to 450 or 500 evade, with a 17 Momentum investment and the requirement of triggering Yomidori. There is very little way to go higher than this without being an Oracle, or a Spellthief.
The long story short is that there are far more passive forms of hit than there are evade, and evade relies solely on enormous buff stacking that would practically wear off before you finished putting the last buffs/debuffs on. Taking an average Joe amount of Hit is risky, since you might encounter liquid speed, while taking average Joe Dodge is suicidal, since you will then be stuck between always being hit, or dodging setups that only autohit.
Re: Evasion/Hit - Ranylyn - 06-15-2017
"Grandpa" Wrote:How evade is now, you either go crackpot mode or you just can't dodge things. You either build for it completely and gimp yourself in other ways or you try and fail to be decent at other things and dodge at the same time.
So much this. Oracle with 50+ Cel/Luc and Talvyd + Quickness = Still getting smacked 3/4 of the time in PVE by level 50 enemies.
It's go big or go home. And if you go big, "lol autohit."
Re: Evasion/Hit - Grandpa - 06-15-2017
Another big issue with Evasion/Hit is that it's overwhelmingly in favor to build for anything else. Three out of the eight base classes in the game are more based on basic attacking than the others, with very few, if any, autohits to rely on. While that in itself is fine the others have majority autohits or magic to rely on which will hit you no matter what. Evasion should help with that, and it does, but you're much better off just building defense and resistance. This should have been solved with the tank meta fixes, but it really didn't do much to stop it in the end.
Honestly, I have very few ideas as to how to fix this. You could give evasion to everyone and have it trigger better for celerity/evade based characters and make it trigger less often or with less effect the more defense and resistance a given character has. Similar to Ogatas, in that way.