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+--- Thread: Glancing Blows (/showthread.php?tid=4676)
Glancing Blows - Neus - 06-23-2017
Just an idea I've had kicking around for a while. Basically, a glancing blow is a mechanic that makes evade a bit more reliable as a defensive stat. Here's the basic outline;
- When hit by a basic attack (or a skill, we'll get another topic for that soon), if the Hit roll result is equal to or less than your Scaled CEL * (armor unique multiplier), it becomes a glancing blow, dealing 50% of its normal damage. (NOTE: By Hit roll, it basically means that the game performs hit checks this way; first do HIT - EVADE, then roll 1d100. If the result is equal to or less than that number, it becomes a glancing blow.
- An example; Hit 275 versus Evade 200 (with Scaled CEL of 50). 75% chance to hit; roll 1d100. If the result is 1-50, it's a glancing blow. If 51-75, it's a normal hit that deals full damage. If 76-100, it's a miss.
- The multiplier for how your CEL affects the range at which you receive glancing blows is as follows; No torso item at all is 1.1x. Unarmored torso is 1x. Light Armor is 0.8x. Heavy Armor is 0.5x. Mutating your armor will not affect this.
- Glancing blows do not check for critical hits (this might be a little tricky if we start involving skills in glancing blows because of lightning criticals).
Thoughts?
Re: Glancing Blows - Chaos - 06-23-2017
My only concern is Glancing Blows mixing in with solid DEF/RES or major reduction skills/effects. 50% is strong but not the end of the world. 50% plus Evasion/Wraithguard plus 40~50 scaled DEF plus some 10% and a few armor points is absolutely nuts, and quite possible.
Additionally, I have to wonder if this applies to people that have a 0% chance of evading. If not, this will give everyone a decent chance to halve any incoming damage for nothing.
Otherwise, this does sound like a good way to make Evade a little better.
Re: Glancing Blows - Autumn - 06-23-2017
My only concern, as Chaos has brought up is dodge tanks, is there much way to circumvent this at all?
Otherwise it sounds like a great way to buff up evade a little bit.
Also I feel as if this would shift hit stacking to be more effective than damage stacking, but that can be alleviated on its own too, so the concern is not my primary one.
Re: Glancing Blows - MegaBlues - 06-23-2017
I feel that for the sake of clarity, it should be HIT - EVADE, then your scaled CEL could be subtracted from that total. Then you roll the 1d100; if the number is above the forecasted chance, it's a hit. If the rolled number is between your forecasted chance and your chance minus scaled CEL, it's glancing. Below that is a miss.
So 275 HIT - 200 EVADE = 75% Chance to hit.
Assuming 50 scaled CEL,
100-76 = Hit
75-26 = Glancing Blow
25-1 = Miss
It's the exact same thing, but I think that going Miss > Glance > Hit rather than Glance > Hit > Miss would be more intuitive for any battle outputs. Also, how would glancing blows factor in Defense and other reductions? With how large HP pools can be and how lots of attacks and skills can function off of defensive stats, I can see a problem with builds optimizing their defense while also being able to put out respectable damage becoming more of a problem.
Other than that, I feel like this is definitely worth a shot, though separate adjustments might be needed for Ice-based skills and magic, considering how Skill affects both accuracy and Ice attack.
Re: Glancing Blows - Snake - 06-23-2017
Well, it might be a worth addition. Dodgetanks are actually supposed to have some credit here, no? This gives them a chance to be good at everything:
While full tanks will mitigate the damage from basic hits to zero via a Parry or Guard, dodgetanks will partially lower it if they're lucky, and dodgers will fully nullify it. That's how the stuff's supposed to go I guess, since from pre-GR.
This might also make VA vs VA or Duelist vs Duelist fights more interesting, rather than two-hit kills, but only if Glancing Blow applies to critical hits. The basic-hitting classes have almost guaranteed ways to critically hit you, so.
Re: Glancing Blows - Shujin - 06-23-2017
Quote:When hit by a basic attack (or a skill, we'll get another topic for that soon), if the Hit roll result is equal to or less than your Scaled CEL * (armor unique multiplier), it becomes a glancing blow, dealing 50% of its normal damage. (NOTE: By Hit roll, it basically means that the game performs hit checks this way; first do HIT - EVADE, then roll 1d100. If the result is equal to or less than that number, it becomes a glancing blow.
Pre or after all other reductions? I assume pre, so 50% can get quite powerful. But I have a little idea that might Combat that a tiny bit. I´ll mention it below.
Quote:Glancing blows do not check for critical hits (this might be a little tricky if we start involving skills in glancing blows because of lightning criticals).I assume you mean a critical hits can´t be a glancing blow? Or that glancing blows can´t be a critical? If the former:
I believe it has to work with crits aswell. Alone because of lightning crits being a thing. Else we just buff the already strongest combat elemet with the highest damage output to even more. While logically speaking you can´t really be critically hit when you only received a glancing blow we could make the message it throws out a tiny bit differnt like:
"X Attacked with a critical blow, but Y managed to avoid most damage!" Or something for Critical glanceing blows.
Quote:An example; Hit 275 versus Evade 200 (with Scaled CEL of 50). 75% chance to hit; roll 1d100. If the result is 1-50, it's a glancing blow. If 51-75, it's a normal hit that deals full damage. If 76-100, it's a miss.While this of course needs a high amount of Cel to even be so reasonbly high I got a few question as to how it works for example:
Hit 275 vs 150 Evade (Let´s still assume 50 scaled Cel). 125% chance to hit. There is no chance to miss but would the "overflowing" hit lower the chance to trigger a glancing hit, since the aim is just so much better in comparasion? in this case 0 Miss 1-25 glancing blow 26-100 hit? (50 glance range-Hitchance over 100%)
And to my idea since 50% can be quite powerful, even more so when at the beginning of damage calculation, we could after a test phase to see just how much this makes dodge superior, see if we can split the range up a bit more in Devs example, using devs formula, it would be 1-25 full glance (full 50% reduction) 26-50 half glance (25% reduction) 51-75 normal hit and 76-100 a miss.
But I agree with Mega that Miss-Glance-Hit is more intuative. Or in this case Miss-full glance-half glance-Hit.
I believe that could combat it a bit if it becomes to extreme with it´s damage reduction. Even though...It does need a lot of scaled Cel so not sure if nessecary, needs some testing first I guess.
Re: Glancing Blows - Raigen.Convict - 06-23-2017
I find the idea to be interesting, though personally as Shujin just stated, the roll being Miss, Glance and then hit. Also personally wouldn't Grazing hit sound better?
Re: Glancing Blows - Sawrock - 06-23-2017
I have a character with 65 Scaled CEL.
Basic attacks already have a tough time with me; it's hard to hit me.
I'm assuming this won't effect autohits, so my weaknesses stay the same. It just causes my strength (basic attacks/basic attack skills) to become an even better strength of my character.
Re: Glancing Blows - Shujin - 06-23-2017
Yeah I mean....It mostly is needed for Autohits, honestly. Because else people can just power stack and ignore all stats to hit things and do massive damage, like currently, without a weakness. Glancing blows are mostly needed to combat THAT.
So I am under the assumtion that we do add this to skills else we don´t really need to bother.
Re: Glancing Blows - Grandpa - 06-23-2017
This sounds good to me, as long as everyone's concerns are confronted/fixed. But as Shujin said, the issue is more for autohits.