+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Summoner Problems (/showthread.php?tid=4946)
Summoner Problems - Autumn - 09-20-2017
Summoner has been addressed to have been a serious problem for the community for a very long time, whether you're Grand Summoner or Bonder you have a plethora of abusable tactics in your repertoire that no one else has access to, such as the ability to deal damage equal to your pure elemental ATK, allowing you to stack a single element of any worthwhile stat point and deal more damage any average mage or evoker spell and cost only 9 FP to use, in just 3m, water/earth/dark are huge offenders of this due to being tied to defensive stats.
Another issue is Bonder, the capability of fast offense makes a youkai have 8m when single bonded, allowing it to be able to double tap any spell it wants to instantly, and then if they're faster (most fairies and dragons are) you'll be able to triple tap, because you've just double turned them quite easily.
Summoner's biggest issue lies in these two heavily abusable tactics, and not really in the summoning part as a whole, so here's what I think should happen to put them in line, since now its actually much easier to grind your youkai.
-For the summoner, youkai spell scaling becomes (Youkai LV*2)% Elemental ATK + 100% of your Scaled weapon power as damage, any weapon can be used as a casting tool.
-Youkai spell cost should become half of it's level, but the FP Cost is cut by half for the youkai itself.
-Fast Offense is a really hard one to balance, but I think to make this skill fair and not make youkai instantly double turn people, it places the youkai's turn order to be directly after your own turn order, to prevent triple youkai spell tapping.
I think the following changes would help set this highly potent class in line, I'm sure other people can express just how terrifying summoner is as a whole.
Re: Summoner Problems - K Peculier - 09-20-2017
I agree completely with Spoops. Summoner is absolutely ridiculous and has been for a long time. The issues being more evident now that youkai level up more than once.
1. They do ridiculous amounts of damage.
2. If they can survive for more than one turn, they double that ridiculous amount of damage.
Summon storm is also equally horrifying with a plethora of high level youkai because stacking high amounts of FP is childs play.
Re: Summoner Problems - Snake - 09-20-2017
They're literally swarming back and forth dealing their 260 damage nukes since the moment Youkai leveling became simpler, rather than a big drag.
I agree with all propositions by Spoops up there, either that or an overall way to reduce Youkai damage (but also increase their damage reduction) if you have multiple of them on the field.
And yet another problem that I slam a palm on the 'YES' button are the Youkai spells having such trivial costs, they do Boxer-worth of damage but don't use up as half of the FP to justify their damage and ridiculous scalings. FP costs are also a way to balance things, not just cooldowns or scaling reductions. In which Summoners can easily sustain due to their FP recovery passives and innates.
Something needs to be done. It's not an immediate issue, but a big one to balance, regardless.
Re: Summoner Problems - MakeshiftWalrus - 09-20-2017
I agree with the suggestions made. Summoner has had it coming for a long time now.
Re: Summoner Problems - Akame - 09-20-2017
Agreed with everything Spoops said!
Re: Summoner Problems - FiresTFS - 09-20-2017
I also +1 Spoops, but if it hasn't also been considered, give Youkai the ability to gain XP for the next level instead of gaining like, 60,000 EXP and only jumping from Lv1 to Lv2!
Re: Summoner Problems - MakeshiftWalrus - 09-20-2017
"FiresTFS" Wrote:I also +1 Spoops, but if it hasn't also been considered, give Youkai the ability to gain XP for the next level instead of gaining like, 60,000 EXP and only jumping from Lv1 to Lv2!
This is already the case.
Re: Summoner Problems - Chaos - 09-20-2017
"K Peculier" Wrote:1. They do ridiculous amounts of damage.Youkai are also quite fragile. A good number of them can be utterly destroyed in a single round, not to mention that one of Magic Gunner's bullets can de-summon Youkai quite easily. If Fast Offense didn't exist, you'd be hard pressed to see a Summoner actually summon.
2. If they can survive for more than one turn, they double that ridiculous amount of damage.
Summon storm is also equally horrifying with a plethora of high level youkai because stacking high amounts of FP is childs play.
As for the OP, I think (Youkai LV*2.3~2.4) would be a fairer number, given that you still have to grind a full level track for it and the spells don't receive any of the benefits that other spells enjoy, i.e. Evoker's boosts. The other suggestions are completely fine and should be implemented.
Re: Summoner Problems - Autumn - 09-20-2017
"Chaos" Wrote:If Fast Offense didn't exist, you'd be hard pressed to see a Summoner actually summon.
This is true for youkai who don't have natural bulk, yeah.
Quote:As for the OP, I think (Youkai LV*2.3~2.4) would be a fairer number, given that you still have to grind a full level track for it and the spells don't receive any of the benefits that other spells enjoy, i.e. Evoker's boosts. The other suggestions are completely fine and should be implemented.
And I'm fine with this, as long as youkai spells maintain some semblance of needing SWA in the equation so that some sort of weapon build is needed to not be able to deal ludicrous amounts of damage, I'm fine with that.
Re: Summoner Problems - MakeshiftWalrus - 09-20-2017
"Chaos" Wrote:Youkai are also quite fragile. A good number of them can be utterly destroyed in a single round, not to mention that one of Magic Gunner's bullets can de-summon Youkai quite easily. If Fast Offense didn't exist, you'd be hard pressed to see a Summoner actually summon.
This is not true. A slow Summoner can easily get their Youkai out for next turn, due to some Youkai's silly base Celerity, which means they'll go before anyone almost as a certainty. Yes, most can be destroyed in a single turn, but even the squishy ones boast 500 HP, which the Summoner himself isn't receiving because of the greater threat on the field, of which two can be summoned in one turn.
Magic Gunner is an issue via its shells, aye, but it doesn't stop them from chunking the Gunner if used through the above-mentioned method.