+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Evasion For All (/showthread.php?tid=4958)
Evasion For All - Neus - 09-23-2017
So, let's discuss how evasion as a global mechanic would work in regards to differences between how it works now and how it 'would' work. I'd also like to discuss ideas about how to change Rogue's Evasion skill to work with it.
Re: Evasion For All - Grandpa - 09-23-2017
I would imagine a global evasion would be much the same as it is now. Just, not the flat 30% rogue offers currently. The global modifier (I think a few people have been talking about now?) would likely be best as cel/2% reduction. The trigger chance being the same as it is now, whatever that is.
As for rogue's evasion (And lesser evasion from in-fighter gi), it could either add into the reduction (by a much smaller percentage than it does now) or it could raise the chance for evasion to trigger. I think either way would be good, personally.
Re: Evasion For All - Sarinpa1 - 09-23-2017
I've to agree with Grandpa, and would like to prod at the idea of perhaps magic being an exception to the global evasion?
It deals with RES, would be now dealing with global evasion, and it deals with elemental resistance. Which is admittedly much easier to attain than resistance to physical damage types.
Re: Evasion For All - Lolzytripd - 09-23-2017
auto hits deal with def and global evasion, and magic damage is much easier buffed than auto hit damage.
no reason it should get special treatment. There are also physical elemental damage and magical slashing damage.
Re: Evasion For All - Grandpa - 09-23-2017
"Sarinpa1" Wrote:I've to agree with Grandpa, and would like to prod at the idea of perhaps magic being an exception to the global evasion?
It deals with RES, would be now dealing with global evasion, and it deals with elemental resistance. Which is admittedly much easier to attain than resistance to physical damage types.
Usually I would be with Lolzy on this- saying that magic damage shouldn't be an exception. But, in this case, I can see the concern. How about making it so global evasion doesn't apply to spells, but if you have rogue evasion or lesser evasion from an item/skill (like swaying or the in-fighter gi) it applies to magic as well like it would currently? That makes it so the skills are still relevant and magic damage wouldn't immediately see a huge dip in dps.
Re: Evasion For All - Snake - 09-23-2017
Well, I've proposed it already, something like CEL/2% damage reduction on a successful proc + a bonus based on your armor type (9% = Unarmored, 6% Light Armor), as stated by Grandpappy, and will pretty much be everyone once tomorrow morning hits, I'm very confident, from the discussions we made in game while you weren't around.
Evasion not working against magic makes me shake my head. No. It's not really necessary. And Ice Magic is pretty hard to be evaded, same goes for Lightning. Both those elements, which come from SKI and LUC, can bypass the hit check of anything that has less than 50 scaled CEL, confirmed. Major concern especially on Lightning, which can also critically hit on top of it.
As for Evasion enhancers, such as Evasion from Rogue...
![[Image: hhZpQBF1RQW4XFsjk9ZnRw.png]](https://image.prntscr.com/image/hhZpQBF1RQW4XFsjk9ZnRw.png)
Why not make it a chance to nullify/completely avoid damage like Lucky Shell's effect did? Some sort of 'Vorpal Evade' (Flawless Evasion?). Same would go for Boxer's Swaying. Evasion has it's weaknesses anyway. Knockdown, Stun, etc.
But this one above is just a brainstorm. In case things get complicated, just go with the main plan of adding a bonus to the damage reduction. Which is what I support over 'increasing your chance'.
PS: http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5365&start=10#p28382 My idea, more solidified in case it brings interest.
==
ALSO YES, VERY IMPORTANT. DON'T MAKE THIS A TRAIT. IF ANYTHING, MAKE THIS BE AN EXTRA EFFECT OF THE TRAIT: AFTERIMAGE.
Re: Evasion For All - Slydria - 09-23-2017
Well, I think it should be fine if it's basically how it is now. That is to say the effectiveness is equal to Rogue's Rank 5 Evasion (30% DR if you're Unarmored, 15% DR if Light Armor, 0% if Heavy Armor) but just as a standard feature for all characters.
As it is now, even if you don't build DEF/RES, you would end up with a character with ~10 Phys Def/Mag Def + 30% DR from Evasion. Which is just a little short of someone with 40 DEF/RES which I find to be pretty typical these days so I think it evens out considering you'd need to build for CEL/LUC instead and usually over the soft cap for it to be reliable.
Alternatively, tying the effectiveness of Evasion to say Scaled CEL/2 would probably also be fine.
As for Rogue's Evasion, I'd say we could change it to 'Enhanced Evasion' which could either slightly increase the effectiveness of Evasion's Reduction (no more than 2% per Rank) or bump up Evasion's chance of triggering (+5 "Evade" per Rank)
In-Fighter Gi's effect would probably need to be changed since it giving a Lesser Evasion isn't really helpful if anyone can have Evasion, maybe something like a passive increase to Evasion's effectiveness when wearing it instead of it being normally halved.
EDIT: I don't agree with the idea that Evasion shouldn't affect magic just because Elemental Resistances exist, if it's an issue then I dare say it's Elemental Resistance at fault.
I also vehemently disagree with Rogue's Evasion giving any sort of passive chance to completely negate attacks, that's far too strong.
Re: Evasion For All - Lolzytripd - 09-23-2017
contrary to popular belief people dont resist all elements
magic damge does alot more damage than physical based autohits which hit 150% swa at best.
spells average atleast 100 swa +100 element minimum.
items usually have more armor that M armor.
honestly if the feeling is elemental damage getting unfairly lowered to basic attack levels of damage, perhaps we should talk about the cancer that is 30+% resist items and maybe consider nerfing elemental resist by instigating some form of diminishing returns.
for isntance if a character has a total of over 200% resist it diminishes all resists by a percent that increases the more resistance you stack.
Re: Evasion For All - Sarinpa1 - 09-23-2017
after reading kunais commentary
i do see the point raised and agree, if it causes magic to be underwhelming, resistances themselves should be a subject of discussion
but that is a fight for a different day
Re: Evasion For All - Autumn - 09-23-2017
I agree with Sly for the most part here, Evasion should be as potent as it is now, equaling 30%, though I'm not opposed to it being 1/2 of your CEL either, also I think that Rogue's evasion should either grant minor reduction increase or grant a better chance to proc the skill.
Elemental resistance is fine, its another form of defense vs magic, like crit evade is to basic attacks.