"[url=http://neus-projects.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=84#p84 Wrote:Lolzytripd » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:50 pm[/url]"]because you can buff cel to high hell with innates , skill not so much.

Quote: @Sawrock I'm awake now! Sure I can do that Saw! Infact I think I already did it, but I'll post it again here for ya.

93 Accuracy Spirit Hunter, Blessed. Max Marksmanship, Max Dynamic Shooting.
SKI*2+0.5LUC+FAI+10+16+93
54*2+0.5*42+26+10+16+93 = 274 Hit

In our other corner, we have a level 55 Kensei/Verglas!

82 Celerity, 35 Luck, 16 Dodge Armor, Agile Feet, After Image, and UnA. Prowess
(CEL*2+LUC+16+6+20)*1.06
(82*2+35+16+6+20)*1.06 = 255.46, or for short, 255 Dodge.

With no other boosts, or nerfs, my hit is at 19% < 274 Hit- 255 Dodge = 19% >

If they had decided to use any negative hit status effect < Which, if we're taking into account they aren't using Kensei anymore, they can use any other class combo! >

So you've got fear or blind. Which can turn that 274 hit to 244 hit, 174 hit, OR 144 hit alone, or together.

I can understand Blind completely wrecking hit, because that's kind of what it do. In fact, A quick and dirty way to have done it, with 100% rate for Blind Success, would have to been main-class LB and use Altera once every so often. -100 hit for no effort. Go figure.

If they were blinded, it would turn the fight towards something more like this.

174 Hit - 225 Dodge... Which as you can tell, is already -50% to hit almost. Not much, if any, amount of 'omg hit buffs!' from a person could bring it out of such a thing.

@Ranylyn You said "passive hit bonuses from the base class" By the way, did I mention that the +25 from Marksmanship and Dynamic Shooting is actually less because of Kenki taking 15% off of it? Making it about +22 hit in reality. I think I did somewhere.


Edit: @Sawrock I actually took the liberty of changing the formula to pre-blessed, in case you wished to compare how abysmal hit was back then, and how necessary ( yes Necessary ) the Blessed = hit boost was.

93 Accuracy Spirit Hunter, Blessed. Max Marksmanship, Max Dynamic Shooting.
SKI*2+0.5LUC+10+16+93
54*2+0.5*42+10+16+93 = 248 Hit


82 Celerity, 35 Luck, 16 Dodge Armor, Agile Feet, After Image, and UnA. Prowess
(CEL*2+LUC+16+6+20)*1.06
(82*2+35+16+6+20)*1.06 = 255.46, or for short, 255 Dodge.

Without FAITH boosting hit, this combat, even without kenki, is a lost cause.

248 hit vs 255 dodge.

JUST SAYING

Quote: Well if you plan to say "Without Kensei" you should specify. I'll change it up right fast then, and even add a "What if I had near-as-bullshit skill as they have celerity!"

93 Accuracy Spirit Hunter, Blessed. Max Marksmanship, Max Dynamic Shooting.
SKI*2+0.5LUC+FAI+10+16+93
68*2+0.5*42+26+10+16+93 = 302 Hit

In our other corner, we have a level 55 LB/Verglas!

82 Celerity, 35 Luck, 16 Dodge Armor, Agile Feet, After Image, and UnA. Prowess
(CEL*2+LUC+16+6+20)*1.06
(82*2+35+16+6+20)*1.06 = 255.46, or for short, 255 Dodge.

There is no difference between LB and Kensei, except VA has a lot of long-lasting buffs to their dodge. Now then, lets begin!

302 hit vs 255 Dodge that's about 47% chance to hit. Reasonable, but utterly abysmal considering it wastes momentum attacking. But, lets assume that it's 'fair' there. LB can do a few quick things and turn that to nothing. First off, they can make you take -100 hit, or -50.

That turns that 302 hit into 202 hit, or 252 hit respectively. Which is, surprisingly, still in the negatives. Whooda thunk it. It's slightly less abymsal to get out of that deathtrap of MINUS HIT, but not really because the amount of buffs you can nab for yourself will drag you, barely, back up to being able to hit. In a fight, a 10% chance just doesn't cut it. Especially against someone who can < and will > swap over to using RAPID KICK for an asinine amount of damage that is generally about 1/3rd of your health per use without greaves, and they can use it TWICE in a turn if they start beside you.

This time I did it with 68 SKI, because that's the average person usually that doesnt build on HITSKRIEG. Oh, by the way, since apparently I guess it needs to be stated. Let me compare what it would like if you weren't a gunner, because apparently by .all. means does this mean anything because 'guns so op'

---------SITUATIONAL STUFF BASED ON A DIFFERENT CLASS SET UP OF THE ATTACK-----------

In this scenario, an archer would be at less of an advantage, nabbing a situational -40 hit from PfA, counteracted somewhat by the +16 Hit Archers get making it a net -24. And due to most of the bows I have in my selection, fully upgraded, have 95% accuracy, that means in total hit for an archer is at -22 of what it would be as a gunner here.

If the attacker was a VA/Ghost whom is using a Coral sharp thieving dagger with a Firm Hilt and Razor Blade. for mods. Lets go and do this!

The dagger has 103 Accuracy, the ghost has max fitting form for +20 hit, blessed dagger too! Same base SKI as before, because not many people will actually have PERFECT SKILL aside from. You know. Gunners who rely 100% on it.

SKI*2+0.5LUC+FAI+10+16+93
54*2+0.5*42+26+20+103 = 278 Hit

Wait.. what's this..? The dagger is SLIGHTLY more accurate than the gun?!?! OMGZORS You can see the sarcasm there, I hope. It gets about 4 more hit in this situation, over a gun. Which means that it's still in unusable territory. Even including Fitting Forms +20 and the daggers inherent +10 over the gun, it can't quite compare because the gun already had its own sort of thing there. So, dagger users are invalidated and not usable against an actual dodger, like themselves.

Tomes have worse accuracy than pretty much everything, moving on.

Axes are bad and you should feel bad for thinking they can actually hit that.

Spears! Spears are good, I guess. Lets see what a Gae Bolg Replica can do wit can do at that SKI

SKI*2+0.5LUC+FAI+10+16+93
54*2+0.5*42+26+20+105 = 280 Hit

Ouch. Even fully fitted for hit, it couldn't really get that high. It got to 280, which isn't that much over the gun.. or anything really.

See, this isn't just about 'lolgunners' or anything. Guns aren't even that ACCURATE. Stop saying they're the most accurate thing in the game, they aren't. Even bows aren't even the 'most accurate' sometimes. This goes to ALL classes, affects ALL people that have to make hit checks.
--------------END other classes------------------