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+--- Thread: Stat cap for buffs discussion. (/showthread.php?tid=5590)
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Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Shujin - 08-18-2018
Recently I have been trying to play around with the idea of an Berserker type of character, so I figured a Lupine would be good from IC stand point.
However I quickly started to run into problems, that actually made that idea really contra productive. Lupines instinct is already inferior to it's felidae counterpart, but when I tried to combine it with something like Ki Awoken I noticed that I can't even fully benefit from it, even when I built SAN to get some use of the instinct. To compensate I figured "Hey why not use one of those highly underrated Muscle enhancers!", which I figured out weren't underrated at all cause it gave me exactly 0 strength in that set up. So my conclusion? Having San on a Lupine was worse than I even thought it was(for this set up atleast).
+20 stats are pretty quickly reached with all the different buffs we have in the game, +20 stats is also mostly a relict from pre GR. so I'd argue that either:
Quote:1.)Raise the general stat cap a tiny bit to like 30ish, with diminishing returns it's not even that terrible anymore as it used to be where stats were flat boni to damage/defenses.
2.) Items like Muscle Enhancer should ignore the cap completely. They are one time use items and the big ones cost whooping 5M to even chug down. They SHOULD be good. not to mention that there are serval buff removers in the game, to even counter that. like the new magic stone aswell.
3.)Instincts that grant stats, should grant these stats to the base stat, or at the very least not count to the general buff cap in general.
Items and Instincts should at the very least not count to the buff cap, it kinda defeats the point building SAN on them.
1.) doesn't have to happen, but I was thinking about stuff like Worgpelt armor, which is already so niche and seems to have a "revenge" type of theme in mind, but with a max of 20 str buff (that it even shares with other buffs.) even after suffering 800 darkness damage, you ain't really going to revenge strike much with it. not even with 30.
There are many things like that, that make support playing not worth it either, like curates strength buff skill, when the person is basically at it's +stat cap anyway. So there are serval things I think, shouldn't fall under this cap atall.
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Fern - 08-18-2018
I don't think enhancers should count towards the mod cap, considering the part where they are a one-time use from the item belt similarly to PR-His, and how easy it currently is to remove buffs like that (Requinite, Null Shell, Wash Away... mostly Requinite.)
As for Instinct racials not counting towards the cap, I don't think it's absolutely necessary myself, but I can't see much harm in it either.
I think the cap is fine where it is though. Off the top of my head- if the cap increased, I feel that certain doomwall setups such as Priests and Mages in general would get out of hand with their tanking.
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Lolzytripd - 08-19-2018
We already have diminishing returns now, the caps existed before scaled stats. Removing the caps wouldn't change much because by the point you get to +20 you need another 10 points yo get 1-3 scaled
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Autumn - 08-19-2018
I still think that the Enhancer type items should go past mod cap, and raise your scaled stat to really give the feel of bulking the hell up, if I could suggest some things:
Here's some ideas for the large enhancers, I'll use STR as an example.
-Increases STR by 25%, like currently.
-Increases the stat soft cap for STR by up to 5 + Perfect subrank with the largest enhancer.
-Due to the stress it puts on your body, it could possibly come with a cost of some sort, like a highly dangerous drug should, possibly -FP% per turn, or reducing another Stat in return gradually, per turn.
As for the stat mod cap, I think that should stay at 20, less you see all stat walls emerging and possibly running amok.
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Lolzytripd - 08-19-2018
Perhaps an addiction mechanic, that reduces the same stat when you haven't gotten your fix. Also maybe a sub talent "Take your medicine" that reduces the momentum cost of the larger potions.
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Shujin - 08-19-2018
Let's not get crazy with addictions or anything.I wouldn't mind a talent for easier chugging for the potions though, 5 is basically your turn.
@Spo
Certain things like Instincts and stuff feel pretty contra productive to build for when you use other buffs, Curates buffing skills are also highly underused already. Same with worgpelt just being...Well sorta bad for how niche it is.
so I feel certain things should just not count to the overall cap, as in how fast it is reached. 30 stat cap is also not the world and really barely worth it to go out of your way for, but 20 is reached so easily currently that it feels weird sometimes. I shouldn't feel bad for building more than 12 SAN on a Lupine.
But it's either or mostly, IMO.
And how about simply having a debuff attached to it, thats basically doing the same but backwards once it ran out?
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Autumn - 08-19-2018
If instincts don't count as racial mods somehow then they should, as vampire's sanguine crest ignores the bonus mod cap as it applies racially.
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Sawrock - 08-19-2018
The defensive enhancers, to note, if they went past the mod cap could be unbalanced.
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Autumn - 08-19-2018
"Sawrock" Wrote:The defensive enhancers, to note, if they went past the mod cap could be unbalanced.I do see where you come from, maybe the defensive enhancers shouldn't get the soft cap deal but like.
At some point, DR should probably be capped at some number like 75% to hard-stop issues like this, theoretically 92% phys DR is possible on a Boxer/Monk Hyattr, but the build wouldn't be that good.
![[Image: 1O6qFkc.png]](https://i.imgur.com/1O6qFkc.png)
Re: Stat cap for buffs discussion. - Shujin - 08-19-2018
I mean I see the issue with the defensive ones, and they certainly should cap somewhere to future proof stuff. But on the other hand? Usually even if you go all out on one defense type (well currently physical one is the only one really capable of such), they have major weaknesses in all other areas and is a meme at best that defense shreder skills probably don't even care about TOO much.
Potion defense enhancer could be a problem when they raise soft cap, I do not see them being an issue when it's scaled stats however.Also...They run out eventually so it's not the worst thing ever.