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+--- Thread: Boxer Buff when? (/showthread.php?tid=5765)
Boxer Buff when? - Senna - 12-20-2018
This is kinda a problem I've been seeing for a while. Boxer class is too outclassed comparing to everything else. Out of the entire class, it's safe to say people only uses Geist that works sometimes. Everything else is either too costie or the limit is just too great comparing to the damage output. If you look on other auto-hit classes like DH, you'll realized the massive difference in arsenal and damage for a much less cost. While Boxer FP price is far too great, it doesn't do as much damage and stacking Schwarz Sturm is not as easy considering the fact people can easily kite you out or..Literally stand..One tile diagonal and you're unable to do anything about it (People can easily force you to break Schwarz Sturm just to move), lol. Someone with enough blunt damage reduction can completely negate half the skill set boxer has to offer if their Schwarz Sturm isn't high enough. It's bad enough I witness someone did 0 damage resisted damage against an individual that had around 25% blunt damage and 60% physical resistance and that person wasn't under-leveled; they were the exact same level 60 but that person had +100 scaling. It took them 3 turns to be able to do some damage and by then, they already received 300-500 worth of damage (The battle was already over)
So suggestion? Improve or allow weapon scaling for boxing techniques, reduce some of the FP cost so it's more reasonable than someone using +200 FP just to get to 8-10 Schwarz Sturm from skills and allow movements with Schwarz Sturm active. It bad enough it locks you out of using other skills from literally any other classes. Another suggestion though I'm not sure if it's needed, if one can allow players preparing Schwarz Sturm to use at least one utility skill from another class a turn.
I know boxing is about movement, positioning, pacing, how well you can play mind-games and so on; outside of having strong punches and stuff.
What I'm doing is simple; I'm trying to make boxer an actual class people would consider for it's overall move set and play style than just Geist for extra momentum.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Grandpa - 12-20-2018
Yeah, I really don't think Boxer needs any kind of buff. Yes, people use geist most often and there's a reason for that: Geist is obscenely powerful. It needs to be entirely changed, or the class itself revamped entirely, before ANY of the skills ever got any scaling improvements.
Demon Hunter is a beast of its own that probably needs to get looked at.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Senna - 12-20-2018
A revamp wouldn't be that bad considering the state it's in at the moment. With the current setting, they're ONLY good for Geist. For a class with many skills, for only 2-4 skills and a 2-3 innate/passive that's actually worth something is really bad.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Snake - 12-20-2018
If Geist Schritt is not as horrible to deal with, we could move Boxer back to the status of high damage and high FP draining it had.
The reason Boxer is so 'weak' at the moment, and even more thanks to the implementation of Global Evasion and such, is because people decided to nerf the damage, but not the utility. So that's why Boxer looks like just a better Verglas.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Autumn - 12-20-2018
If you can fix Geist Schritt being the most annoying and table turning thing to fight against then you can buff its damage, but simply put Geist Schritt is way too oppressive currently, I've expressed this before in other threads as well.
I'd want Boxer to get a damage buff, but Geist Schritt weighs the class too much, here are the issues with Geist Schritt:
-It Negates an attack completely, letting you avoid damage, it may as well be a miss in terms of damage, it also consume's the skill's cooldown, increases momentum cost, FP etc.
-Its a movement skill on top of this, while not inherently bad it can carry you pretty far, this can likely remain however.
-Negating an attack completely also gives you momentum, setting your opponent as basically a momentum deficit for guessing the 50% game wrong, even worse is when you're a mage and you don't just HAVE easy access to basic attacks, often times Geist Schritt literally means you just get ignored completely because no one ever wants to deal with that, now that boxer has low damage that often can spell victory by making someone feel useless.
Removing the momentum gain from Geist Schritt is the first step, making it not completely negate an attack and provide a very heavy DR (maybe such as 75% like Stalemate) is another.
Another thing to state is that in the given example, anyone with blunt resistance and high physical resistance probably will always have the advantage against boxer, or similar MA classes, thats just a given.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Lonestar - 12-21-2018
I'll have to agree with the point above. Before Boxer receives any buffs, Geist Schritt needs to be toned down to something else, to the point that classes wouldn't completly ignore the entire class' set/mechanic in favor for a flip a coin game with high risk, low reward for those who play it against. Global Evasion is currently's the class worst enemy, more than blunt resist in my opinion, as a passive can negate that.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Autumn - 12-21-2018
I think an excellent check to evasion could be flatfoot, a tool both soldier and boxer have access to, while also having costs to them (Soldier as main class, and 4m cost for felhook)
Though that thought could also be saved for later.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - Senna - 12-21-2018
The other MA classes can deal with Blunt damage easy comparing to Boxer. One has to stack up their flow just to be able to resist it while Verglas can simple say F it and completely use magic damage including of frostbite technique with the ice boots. Monk can easily switch between physical and magical damage if they wish. (OR DROP A SUN AND DENSE THUNDER PEOPLE INTO IT). Boxer you need to build your Schwarz Sturm to four and up (2-3 turns) to even trigger Gotthand. The thing about Geist is that you have some techniques that completely ignores it's effects; setting it back by a lot. Example: All of ranger's magic skills, some V/A skills and so on. Sure, I do understand the problem some Magics would have but it's more so base on the given techniques (Magic) they're using. (I've seen a tankie fire only Evoker/LB backhand a boxer to the point the person change their from Boxer to monk). If Geist needs to be changed so the class can be buffed otherwise then so be it. I'm sure it'd be better than it is now, since people would use it for Geist momentum boost then abuse their other-class techniques with it. (Like Kensei, Evoker, DH, VA, Monk...All very offensive classes, lol).
Re: Boxer Buff when? - PantherPrincess - 12-23-2018
Senna post_id=34423 time=1545380763 user_id=2036 Wrote:The thing about Geist is that you have some techniques that completely ignores it's effects; setting it back by a lot. Example: All of ranger's magic skills, some V/A skills and so on.
Boxer literally negates if not all most of VA's basic attacks or offensive skills... among other classes. Furthermore the techniques you're referring to are pretty much mostly sidecut, crystal rose, and a handful of skills that don't single target tiles which I think is pretty necessary to have as a weakness considering Geist can give you a lovely 3M just for using it and guessing right AND you don't even need to build celerity for it. I don't really see any issue with boxer it can switch to magical damage as well (asura fist) just like most other classes can. The problem most players face as boxers is running into high phys. def builds or at least from what i've seen multiple times with my own boxers/others. This can be solved by using numerous different class combos with boxer including destiny MA which is a popular one because of Monk or Verglas's magical damage. The fact that it not only negates attacks & even certain skills but refunds 3M as well is already extremely good. I'm fine with where boxer stands right now it got nerfed because of how outrageous it's scaling was on its offensive skills.
Re: Boxer Buff when? - GSM - 12-23-2018
I don't think Boxer needs a buff when it can entirely negate someone else's playstyle when played correctly. It's in a rather fine spot, but has a bit too much utility for a mostly offensive class. If it got buffed, we'd have the issue where everyone's playing a Boxer again.