Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Printable Version +- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums) +-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs (/showthread.php?tid=5888) Pages:
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Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Kameron8 - 01-25-2019 In light of how underrepresented the rail gun magi are right now, I wanted to make a few possible suggestions to help put Evoker in a better spot -- or at least generate productive discussion about other ways to do so. Strap into your seats and channel your inner Megablues, because it's time to buff Evokers. Before I list off any suggestions at all, I believe it's helpful to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the class. Even if the later suggestions themselves seem distasteful to you, keep in mind that the core topics I'm trying to address can be found in the below list. This is the heart of the discussion at hand. Perceived Weaknesses:
Perceived Strengths:
Of the weaknesses listed, I think it's a safe assumption to make that low damage output should not be present, nor should minimal variety of spell choice. With all of that in mind, I've made an attempt at creating or reworking abilities to try and help address these. Feel free to critique my ineptitude with game design, but, keep in mind that the goal is ANY solution to the weaknesses that aren't supposed to be inherent to the class, not these abilities exclusively. Quote:Synaptic Precision: Quote:Evocation (REWORKED): Quote:Pure Power (REWORKED): Quote:Spell Cadence: The last couple of abilities are all ridiculously high ranking invocations. I can't fathom these seem fair, but I would imagine the steep cost of even trying to cast them would err them on the side of unusably weak, instead of overpowered. Nonetheless, it's difficult to gauge power level with a tier of spell that quite literally doesn't yet exist. Quote:Cataclysm: Quote:Absolute Zero: Quote:Terracide: Quote:Sylphid's Spiral: Quote:God Bolt: If you stuck through this unending wall up to this point, good on you. I appreciate you taking the time to read my criticisms. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Fern - 01-25-2019 I love these. Evoker isn't frequently played as of this moment and I am sure many people can attest to that. I believe this would help bring its glass cannon identity back into play. That said, the Rank A invocations proposed being main class is definitely a fair downside IMO. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Autumn - 01-25-2019 This was an enjoyable read into the playout of Evoker currently, it goes more in depth than when I say "Evoker plays out the same way, it serves as the barrier for PvP" because spacing and rocks that extinguish buffs are a thing, I'd love to see more invocations in Evoker personally so that it actually lives up to its name, very powerful effects like these should logically never be pulled off if acted against, and serves to make Evoker a very serious threat that can be dealt with accordingly. As for the other passives, I forsee a problem with as you brought up, lightning criticals, but as I've brought up across several threads they've been deserving of a right nerf bat for a very long time, and shouldn't detract from allowing evokers to glass cannon even harder. (especially if defense changes are put into place, hampering unarmored less effective against physical threats) One thing for certain can be said, the staple powerhouse mage, all powerful and typically able to ICly wipe out entire armies if allowed is severely undersold right now compared to other mages, like hexer and tactician. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Chaos - 01-25-2019 The 'Pure Power' rework should honestly be its own skill, and Spell Cadence needs to be limited in some way to prevent any sort of multi-hit weapon (see: guns) from enabling once-a-turn combos of... Quote:Attack -> 0m Cast -> 3~4m Cast.Or, in the case of Fleur, Quote:Attack w/ Crit -> 0m Cast -> 3m Cast -> 3m Cast.Gets worse with anything that further bolsters Momentum, but you get the point by now. Aside from that, I'm supportive of these changes. At the very least, the Rank A Invocations would be a very welcome addition and would see interesting use in PvP. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - firebird496 - 01-25-2019 Pure power sounds great, but at the same time only useful for wind mages for speed. With 0% defenses and evasion, you'll probably die in 1 turn wouldn't you? (I know it's kind of the point). Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Kameron8 - 01-25-2019 Chaos post_id=35084 time=1548431274 user_id=75 Wrote:The 'Pure Power' rework should honestly be its own skill, and Spell Cadence needs to be limited in some way to prevent any sort of multi-hit weapon (see: guns) from enabling once-a-turn combos of... Can you offer your reasoning for why you think the original Pure Power should stay? On the subject of Spell Cadence, it was designed with Fleur in mind, but not multi-hit guns. Just as Elemental Augment takes special exception with it, I would assume this ability would too. One stack per volley, instead of per shot. firebird496 post_id=35085 time=1548434445 user_id=436 Wrote:Pure power sounds great, but at the same time only useful for wind mages for speed. With 0% defenses and evasion, you'll probably die in 1 turn wouldn't you? (I know it's kind of the point). It would more than likely take at least two rounds in a strict one-versus-one, since external mitigation still functions. (Wraithguard, etc) Initiative would certainly be important for somebody made of paper, and it shouldn't feasibly be too difficult to get with your corresponding element since Resistance (and Defense, for non-earth Mages) become dead stats. Ideally you'd have a contingency plan or a team to supplement you if you chose this route for yourself. That's the idea, anyway. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - firebird496 - 01-25-2019 So it seems it would cater to more of spellswords than evoker itself. Not exactly a bad thing. As far as the amount of rounds it would take to kill, I suppose it depends on their vitality, after all people seem to be able to do 200-300 a hit these days, especially if you have 0% def and res Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - K Peculier - 01-30-2019 Agreed with all the points Kameron makes here. Evoker is heavily underutilized because they just don't have the utility or abilities to keep up with other classes ridiculous amounts of mobility and arguably higher SWA from sketchy % stacking on certain skills and even weapons. The mobility and mitigation game of Evoker is really lackluster in that respect and they'll usually go down QUICK in most fights without being much or any of a glass cannon in the first place. As for the Rank A invocations. Those sound fun, fun things are fun and seems like a good risk vs reward deal in my opinion, all for it. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Grandpa - 01-30-2019 While all these points are true about Evoker, and I like the majority of these changes, buffs, new skills, etc. I am simultaneously slightly worried that they'll more or less end up dominating the playing field, especially when used in tandem with other strong classes. I'm with Chaos in that Spell Cadence needs something to keep it in check, especially when used in cases like Duelist. Synaptic Precision worries me a bit as well, if only because of lightning critical hits. If someone doesn't pass the evade check when you hit them with a critical ryemei charge-minded, you're probably not getting back up - or at least, that's easily more than half your HP bar gone. Maybe it could be another buff applied through charge mind, similar to elemental overtime, in that it increases the accuracy of your base mage skills (only, by a far smaller number than 100/200/300). Of course, that's preparing for just the case of a mostly unmitigated CM crit ryemei. Everything else would be fine, I think. Re: Suggestion: Additional Evoker Skills and Buffs - Kameron8 - 01-30-2019 Grandpa post_id=35158 time=1548837946 user_id=70 Wrote:While all these points are true about Evoker, and I like the majority of these changes, buffs, new skills, etc. I am simultaneously slightly worried that they'll more or less end up dominating the playing field, especially when used in tandem with other strong classes. That's alright, the main point of the thread was to bring attention to the problems rather than suggest solutions every single person would be happy with. Tweaking the suggestions is a trivial matter, if it ends up getting out of hand. Grandpa post_id=35158 time=1548837946 user_id=70 Wrote:Synaptic Precision worries me a bit as well, if only because of lightning critical hits. If someone doesn't pass the evade check when you hit them with a critical ryemei charge-minded, you're probably not getting back up - or at least, that's easily more than half your HP bar gone. Maybe it could be another buff applied through charge mind, similar to elemental overtime, in that it increases the accuracy of your base mage skills (only, by a far smaller number than 100/200/300). I share the sentiment, shown here: Kameron8 post_id=35075 time=1548381119 user_id=215 Wrote:With the explicit exception of Lightning criticals, which have ample room for their own forum discussion, the basic Evoker spells are often comparable to the Mage base class. I'm of the opinion that those are an outlier to magic in general, and should be dealt with specifically -- rather than holding back every other component of the class because of them. |