I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Printable Version +- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums) +-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) (/showthread.php?tid=6147) |
I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - EenKogNeeto - 04-27-2019 When using certain on-hit weapons, and most on-crit weapons in your offhand, your main-hand weapon can apply the effect as if it were that weapon. Example being: Atlatuas Abaniko applying silence, Guitar doing AOE sound damage, so on and so forth. This is mostly an issue in two cases of increasing severity: When using handguns (As you get to proc it multiple times when it probably was based around only happening once), and leadstorm (As you get to proc it multiple times on multiple people) The main reason I see this as an issue instead of a fun mechanical thing is...Using a guitar offhand and a quickdraw mainhand, you can fly into the enemy team and do two hundred damage to all of them assuming a single member of their team hasn't stacked crit evade high enough to resist you. And this multiplies by the number of people not immune to crits on a given team potentially leading to an instance where a single person can instantly kill a four-person party, despite not being able to win against any of them on an individual level. What should happen: Only applicable if you actually hit them with that weapon, same as MLM being changed to only give its crit damage to itself. I would be lying if I didn't explicitly give some people the idea to use this knowing it would probably need to be fixed, and the reason it's here rather than bug reports is... It's working as intended, so a balance fu was required instead. Other noteworthy fun uses are using a jackhammer to silence the entire enemy team at the start of combat even without leadstorm, Using two guitars to shred super hard when you do the special attack with an axe while surrounded, and so on and so forth. Sorry dark bard, but six hundred total damage with only one person on a three man team getting hit is a biiiiit much. PS: And all this doesn't even begin to describe how effective it is in PVE. ------- Rather than edit and restructure this post I'll leave it for the sake of other peoples arguments having context. This edit is because I have done further testing and found that Abaniko and other on crit weapons do not interact the same way with a mainhand weapon. It's ONLY the guitar that works this way that i've found after testing everything from Anchor Edge to Tarnada to Abaniko. Which I feel makes it quite obviously something that should be changed to bring it in line with every other weapon. TESTED AND DOES NOT PROC ON MAINHAND Anchor Edge: On Critical: Inflict Immobilize for 2 Rounds. Skullcaver: On Critical: UL/2% chance to inflict Stun. Thornshooter: On Critical: Immobilizes the target for 2 Rounds. Abaniko: On Critical: UL% chance of inflicting Silence for 2 Rounds. HOTG: On Critical: UL% chance to inflict Knockdown for 2 rounds. MLM: On Crit: If target is Feared and is a non-boss Monster, they are instantly killed. Ryeser: On Critical: Reduces the target's Momentum by 1 if they do not resist Lightning damage, to a minimum of 3 Momentum. Tarnada: On Critical: UL% chance of casting Vydel, for free. PROCS ON MAINHAND: FULLY - Guitar: On Critical: Inflicts unresistable Sound damage to all enemies in 5 Range equal to this weapon's Power. SOMETIMES - Deadly Smile* (Tested by Lolzytripd): On Critical: If target is feared, inflict Knockdown. *Only works in certain situations apparently The others were untested because they tend to be fairly unused and you get the picture by now. Feel free to grab stuff like an Abberation spear and check yourself. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Autumn - 04-27-2019 I don't really see it as much of an issue currently, I've faced off against these builds in a pvp scenario and because of physical DRs I only took at most 9 damage from the sound proc of an electric guitar, not to mention how fun it is with gimmicks like salamander sword. Infact I think the only abuse of this scenario was with the moonlight mercy itself, as it added a load of damage to the quickdraw on crits (and critting with a quickdraw is extremely hard to begin with) Not to mention the scenario you brought up is so improbable that I hardly foresee it being a large deal either. The only issue here is the amount of AoE you can do with electric guitar + skills like Lead Storm and Widespin, perhaps even sidecut. This is just sounding like a case of actually just hating fun and/or being salty about something that isn't actually an issue, could be wrong, but this is what I think. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - EenKogNeeto - 04-27-2019 Spoops post_id=36339 time=1556407065 user_id=193 Wrote:This is just sounding like a case of actually just hating fun and/or being salty about something that isn't actually an issue, could be wrong, but this is what I think. Mildly salty that my team took 100 damage each because I wasn't evasive/crit evasive enough like they were. 200 Is just the typical exaggerations (I took 200 damage from the single leadstorm but that was because of bullets with the sound damage, not JUST sound) Expecting everyone to have hundred+ crit evade or their team suffers is kinda rough. Just to note it was never a spur of the moment 'Reee nerf this' thing I had known and considered it OP for a lot longer than anyone actually used it in a build, and it took me a few days to get around to making the thread in Bug report after I saw it finally used. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Snake - 04-27-2019 On the other hand. (Heh.) I love fun. (Heh.) I disagree with the things posted here, solely because this accident made a nice feature for the game, and gave those weapons an extra utility. This, compared to Moonlight Mercy? This is nothing. MLM + Quickdraw was the only weapon which we would bat an eye and frown because 1200 damage in one round was the true absurdity of those. That was hands down an impossible-to-beat setup. The rest? They're just scattered gimmicks. You absolutely can dodge against this setup, since wielding two hands makes you not benefit from Steady, which makes you lose hit. If you wanted to hit, you'd be having Borneblood for an enchant, which makes you lose crit, if you wanted crit on those, Vorpal enchant, so no hit. And then we add 'Demon Hunter' to the fray, a class that doesn't give any statistics to the character. No bonus hit, no bonus crit, no bonus nada, further making this set more niche. The counter-argument for those is that I 'dare' you use a Jackhammer against people in PvP and not die horribly when they're packing Kensei, Spirit Mirrors, high Dodge, high Crit Evade (new meta!), and any other type of gun sucking hardcore ass if they're not Rifles or Crazy Coyote. You speak as if there's no counterplay, or if everybody is your classic chubby Monk/Hexer who sits down with nothing but high DEF/RES, no crit evade and no Evade at all and expect to not be bursted. That's their choice. So nah, not really. I don't see why this should be changed. This "Six Hundred Damage" of yours seems a little too far-fetched and if you could provide a more solid evidence, I'd be all ears to change my opinion. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Trexmaster - 04-27-2019 It is fantastic in PvE, that much goes without saying. I speak as one of the people who used this after Moonlight Mercy got gutted for the same reason. Strictly speaking of its PvE effectiveness: Now, as for it's effectiveness in PvP..... Suffice to say, I don't think gutting the Electric Guitar will have any impact at all on the effectiveness of this setup in PvP. It'll do worse in its optimal environment (fighting people with 0 evade/crit evade) and be thrown into the pile of weapons that never see use as they serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever. If anything it's another reason to pack Critical Evade or use Critical. We're running out of reasons to basic attack as is. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Lolzytripd - 04-28-2019 I agree with spoops, kunai and trex. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - EenKogNeeto - 05-07-2019 https://pastebin.com/UwSgmQ2i Here's a pastebin of the offhand guitar doing 200+ damage to two teammates with every actual shot getting redirected elsewhere. Much balance. Very gud. Actively punishes use of magnetic shield if you arent immune to crits. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Snake - 05-07-2019 ...Where is your crit evade against a gun with 80%~ crit?... What... What are your classes...? Do you uhh, want some build or gear-up tips there, mate? Seeing those tears over a really dumb choice is kind of making me feel a lot of pity right now. I'll try my best to help you stop whining over something that's completely fine. Here goes atleast two items that may interest you, and that will make you return about 350 damage to any Quickdraw user. Quote:Bellplate. 10*. Dropped by Level 56+ Forgery mobs. Have fun no longer crying about this. And please stop crying about this, it's getting annoying. Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Miller - 05-07-2019 EenKogNeeto post_id=36445 time=1557190664 user_id=2034 Wrote:https://pastebin.com/UwSgmQ2i I'd read Trex's post on the matter but uh. First of all, this set up requires you to actually crit and it's spread across multiple rounds. To put it simply, any decent amount of crit evade will basically neuter a good chunk of the damage. Tanks with no crit evade should expect to be shot down by most basic hit builds. (Not to mention you're basically encouraging getting shot by this with a Magnetic Shield.) Re: I hate fun (Offhand On crit Pt2) - Grandpa - 05-07-2019 EenKogNeeto post_id=36445 time=1557190664 user_id=2034 Wrote:https://pastebin.com/UwSgmQ2i We're still in that fight. Maybe you should focus on that before adding to the balance fu thread. Yeah, I'm gonna pop in to say that shooting the other two people on your team actually nearly killed me when you weren't around them. You killed your team by not having crit evade. Also these numbers are actually just incorrect. You took about 189. Church Knight took about 164. Brute took 205. As Snake said, the following items: Quote:Bellplate. 10*. Dropped by Level 56+ Forgery mobs. Can and have been used to directly counter this. In those situations I more or less struggle to do anything, as you would have noticed happening to the Church Knight, had you been looking at the fight. I tried shooting him and he had both a fang-faced shield and crit evade, so, I pretty much just died and did nothing useful. |