+- NEUS Projects (https://neus-projects.net/forums)
+-- Forum: Sigrogana Legend 2 (OOC) (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: Balance Fu (https://neus-projects.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+--- Thread: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) (/showthread.php?tid=6212)
Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Snake - 05-22-2019
Engineer still needs their turrets to be more viable for atleast PvE. I'm making a new thread because the last one didn't yield any results and it has been over months already enough for any attempts to reply end in necropost, so...
Assuming what I requested there was troublesome to implement, I have a couple of new proposals for each one of the turrets, those will be additional skills that will pretty much cover what they're heavily lacking right now, and will also make me shut up for real about the class's most iconic pre-GR gimmick that got overshadowed by the upgrades. They feel like they don't do anything but look pretty and give the Engineer headache or make them question why they haven't invested in bombs instead.
I'll post each extra skills the current Engineer bots should have:
Quote:(Turret)
Gattling Mode - 3M - Becomes immobilized for 5 rounds and grants "Gattling Mode" for the same duration, which increases the power of their Gun weapon by 40, the base amount of rounds by 5 and base range by 2. May not react well to Interference.
Precision Module - 3M - Uses 10% of the Bot's HP - Increases the Turret's Hit by 100, lowers Critical by 100, cleanses Blind (and grants immunity) for 3 rounds. If the Turret is under the effects of Interference or Confusion, the Hit bonus will be halved.
Quote:(Medibot)
Refresh - 3M - Uses 15% of the Bot's HP - Restocks your Medibot's Item Bag. If used on an Ally, it may restock one of their potions at random, but it will put this on a 5 round cooldown.
Smart Treatment - 3M - 1 round Cooldown - 10 FP - Targets an ally, heals them for (Medibot LV * 1.5) HP and grants Regenerating LV(Medibot LV). May not react well to Interference.
Quote:(Metalaegis)
Crystal Refraction - 6+M - Uses 10% of the Bot's HP - All allies within 3 range of the Metalaegis gain Spirit Mirror for 2 rounds. May not react well to Interference.
Etherium Dispenser - 3M - 10 FP - Targets an ally and releases a cloud of Repair Powder and Etherium dust. Repairs the durability of all weapons by 15, and recovers 15% of their FP. The same target cannot be targeted by this again for 3 rounds.
Deploying Gattling Mode, Smart Treatment or Crystal Refraction while the Bot is Interferenced has a 25% (or 50%) chance of failure, in which the Bot will explode into scraps instead and knockback friends and foes alike within 3 range 4 tiles away, and then inflict knockdown.
This above is so Engineers will want to consider holding a wrench to bashfix their bots in case Interference gets to them. It's not really necessary, just a whim. But the skills listed above? Yippie-Ka-Hyae! Out of all bots above I'd scream for Turret alone to receive a bit more love. It's the most lackluster of the three.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Cal - 05-22-2019
Don't forget about the useless "attatchments" like the grenade launcher and such. I do like the turret ideas tho.
>inb4 who the fuck uses engineer.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Autumn - 05-22-2019
These are surprisingly really good suggestions for the bots themselves and might serve to make them fulfill their purposes a lot better, the HP costs associated to the skills seem to be a good price for them to pay.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Miller - 05-23-2019
I really like these a lot and they all have a fair amount of counter play to them. Would love to see these implemented to some degree if not all.
As an off note, I think turretbots need a range increase on the skills they already have.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - EenKogNeeto - 05-23-2019
Snake post_id=36641 time=1558561202 user_id=310 Wrote:Quote:(Turret)
Gattling Mode - 3M - Becomes immobilized for 5 rounds and grants "Gattling Mode" for the same duration, which increases the power of their Gun weapon by 40, the base amount of rounds by 5 and base range by 2. May not react well to Interference.
Precision Module - 3M - Uses 10% of the Bot's HP - Increases the Turret's Hit by 100, lowers Critical by 100, cleanses Blind (and grants immunity) for 3 rounds. If the Turret is under the effects of Interference or Confusion, the Hit bonus will be halved.
Quote:(Medibot)
Refresh - 3M - Uses 15% of the Bot's HP - Restocks your Medibot's Item Bag. If used on an Ally, it may restock one of their potions at random, but it will put this on a 5 round cooldown.
Smart Treatment - 3M - 1 round Cooldown - 10 FP - Targets an ally, heals them for (Medibot LV * 1.5) HP and grants Regenerating LV(Medibot LV). May not react well to Interference.
Quote:(Metalaegis)
Crystal Refraction - 6+M - Uses 10% of the Bot's HP - All allies within 3 range of the Metalaegis gain Spirit Mirror for 2 rounds. May not react well to Interference.
Etherium Dispenser - 3M - 10 FP - Targets an ally and releases a cloud of Repair Powder and Etherium dust. Repairs the durability of all weapons by 15, and recovers 15% of their FP. The same target cannot be targeted by this again for 3 rounds.
Gattling seems a bit too strong for no real cost, while also negating the usefulness of its current skills (Assuming they kept them) since they are very positioning based. I'de say either the Power or the Rounds+Range on its own would be fine when combined with the next skill
Precision is actually probably fine as written here honestly, the bots suffer heavily from lack of hit and making them even squishier is a pretty tangible drawback, and it doesn't completely negate evasion.
Refresh seems fine for the medibot itself, but restoring an allies PR-Hi for a 700 heal could be a real ballache in an extended battle against an engineer. They can reduce the RNG involved by only equipping a PR high and a bomb or somesuch.
Treatment - 105 Heal seems fine but consider the actual ramifications of a LV 70(60) regen effect. Higher than even Black Elixer and applied by a separate pool of momentum with only 1 CD (Duration not listed but keep in mind that there are things that can extend positive buff duration)
Refraction is a big 'Please god no' for anyone who plays a ranged attacker, some mages, and some other builds - Its a bitch and a half to clear spirit mirror at the start of battle without dying due to the reflect, to give people an easy source of obtaining it several times in a fight would be SUFFERING beyond compare. Consider making it a Protect+ Instead? Redirect any single attack to the Aegis (IF it's alive) instead of just basics?
Etherium I would say the repair is probably fine, but the FP recovery would effectively remove any drawback from bots. Since you would toss em out and immediately get the FP back from your aegisbot the next round. Maybe have it give something useful but niche like enabling Guard for the turn for the target. Ducking into a cloud of mist while it repairs your stuff.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Fern - 05-23-2019
I don't see a problem with all of these myself. Engineer's been made fun of for eons now, it'd be nice if it could silence the whole "monoclass engineer/engineer the most op" joke by being more appealing overall.
I almost never witness engineers in PVE or PVP myself, to my knowledge it's because people in general don't like playing the class unless they want to do it for a joke or it fits the character far too much to deny it, usually.
If Engineer got the Ghost rework treatment I'd not personally mind, however this is just my opinion. These propositions are solid and I don't see any catastrophic problems with them, frankly.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - EenKogNeeto - 05-24-2019
Fern post_id=36666 time=1558631125 user_id=55 Wrote:I don't see a problem with all of these myself. Engineer's been made fun of for eons now, it'd be nice if it could silence the whole "monoclass engineer/engineer the most op" joke by being more appealing overall.
I almost never witness engineers in PVE or PVP myself, to my knowledge it's because people in general don't like playing the class unless they want to do it for a joke or it fits the character far too much to deny it, usually.
If Engineer got the Ghost rework treatment I'd not personally mind, however this is just my opinion. These propositions are solid and I don't see any catastrophic problems with them, frankly.
Do keep in mind that just because a class isn't played often doesn't mean it's weak, an engineer is very powerful in team battles, it's just very team-dependent to really shine. 1m positioning skill to your team is very strong, and so can the grenades and bombs be. It can also shred certain tank builds that are reliant on earth damage, or surprise people with overload damage. And refraction can be extremely situationally mildly useful too - And protect is never anything to scoff at as much as people joke. Aegisbot will literally take a bullet for you.
TLDR: Entire class doesn't need reworked, bots are lackluster though and could stand to be brought in line with the rest of their kit hence support.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Raigen.Convict - 05-26-2019
Een, tell me, why are you talking about anything that isn't the Engineer's bots? This entire thread is about the BOTS... Not jetpack, not upgrades, not bombs, not overload, just the 3 bots. That said I fully agree and feel these sound pretty good in concept. Also, since the bots are 5 ranks, each rank should scale these skills up until they hit the proposed values, or values tweaked by Dev himself. The only potentially strong thing about this is turret bot dealing actual damage while having Ignite Engine on it from what I can think of. (Which is admittedly a build my engineer runs as a destiny, Ignite Engine is very fun.) Precision module I don't know if lowering crit is reaaally necessary, but if it's needed for balance, sure. I've yet to see a turret crit in the first place beyond PVE using a tactician with the range squares.
Onto Medibot. I'd say maybe make the maximum level of smart treatment HALF the medibot's level for the reason of it still being pretty easy to use it even with the hp cost, plus Void assassin consume energy to give a level 40 regeneration, which is decently strong in itself. Medibot granting a heal + regeneration of level 60 would be outright rediculous, but the concept is workable. Maybe even max of level 25, but I'm shooting for 30. Otherwise I like the abilities suggested.
MetalAegis: FINALLY, SOMETHING THIS THING CAN DO BEYOND SIT ON ITS BUTT NEXT TO SOMEONE. Ahem, however, granting spirit mirror feels a bit much for an AOE, so I say a single ally in 1 range, which it 9/10 is within. Otherwise giving durability back to a weapon and a toutch of fp is nice given Engineer is shockingly fp heavy if you toss your three bots out immediately.
TL;DR: Some of these could be tweaked but otherwise solid concepts. Would pay (if I had cash) to see these in.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - EenKogNeeto - 05-26-2019
Raigen.Convict post_id=36689 time=1558868294 user_id=128 Wrote:Een, tell me, why are you talking about anything that isn't the Engineer's bots? This entire thread is about the BOTS... Not jetpack, not upgrades, not bombs, not overload, just the 3 bots.>Engineer could use a rework like ghost
Was part of the context.
Engineer not being good was the other part.
It's in the quoted post.
Re: Engineer Bots (Ah shit here we go again version) - Miller - 05-26-2019
EenKogNeeto post_id=36694 time=1558884998 user_id=2034 Wrote:>Engineer could use a rework like ghost
Was part of the context.
Engineer not being good was the other part.
It's in the quoted post.
I believe Fern wasn't saying engineer was weak, granted it was badly worded. Right now people avoid engineer mostly because it generally falls into the same play style of using it's utility/item belt instead of the actual engineering part of it (Which this thread wants to address) and then to avoid it because of that. It currently doesn't offer enough to the average player to warrant running it over the other rogue promotions in both PvE and PvP.
-----------------------------------
To add onto my original post though after thinking about it a bit more. I think Gatling Mode needs the biggest adjustment or the Turret bot itself because as is, the turret bot can/will be easily kited and lose access to using most of its skills. My suggestion is for the power boost to be lowered in favor of losing immobilize and raising the range on the Turret's current existing skills + lowering its FP cost.
Smart Treatment needs to be changed for the most part in my opinion; it could remove statuses such as burn/poison while healing a target ally to further strengthen its utility.
Refresh is fine while also being very potent; being able to restock cleanse pots/pre-his mid battle is extremely valuable and I would love to see it be a thing.
--------------------------
I'd like to add on my own suggestion onto this however. Maybe we can add passives to the bots that encourage sticking close and repairing them?
As an example;
Medibot - (Level / 7) HP Regen per turn for those within 2/3 Range.
Metalaegis - (Level / 10) Armor/Magical Armor for those within 2/3 range.
Turret - Honestly not sure.
With that said, I feel like repair should have a flat bonus towards bot healing specifically to put more value in the skill. (For maintaining overclock and the likes.)