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+--- Thread: Remove Aptitude? (/showthread.php?tid=6818)
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Remove Aptitude? - Shujin - 04-25-2020
I know, I know. Get your torches up.
But seriously. This stat is entirely pointless. It serves no real purpose and all it those is confuse new people. I am tired of explaining people how madatory that stat is, just to see them frown and having to redo their build. Every single build that somewhat alright uses atleast 6 stats, meaning Apt is always better to go for than individually spending these points.
I know that dev probably wanted to put this stat in for people that "Balance" or something, but it turned out to be just a free stat booster, with the only downside of one specific invocation dealing more damage. Probably burn reducing a bit more def? No idea. Overall though its not really a stat that deserves existing, simply because it causes issues OOCly. Being a beginners trap. Don't get be started on having to explain people how base+spend stat points work, and that Apt doesn't effect it at all...I swear If I got a asago for everytime I had to explain that to someone...
Lets make this game a bit more beginner friendly, and remove this weird stat OR give it an actual purpose.
Of course such would require to adjust Stats per Level, but honestly? Better that then such a weird stat.
Mandatory stats shouldn't exist in this form, and the "+exp%" isn't even written anywhere, which confuses more people even more. Its one of the things you have to know and the game just doesn't tell you. Like luc effecting drop rates.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Autumn - 04-25-2020
If you remove aptitude you might run into the issues where hard min-maxing is a thing rather than slotting in efficient usages of aptitude, someone who might not need STR or CEL or GUI for example (Like every tanky autohitter in the game) would suddenly get away with a lot of stats if adjusted for, but someone who would need lots of stats would just be punished.
You would quite literally have to adjust every racial base to go up by 8 on average and even that'd cause some inherent issues with scaling later down the line.
Its too late to be able to cut Aptitude out of the picture, the game's system already has it in mind and it'd be very hard to recover from just taking it out.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Shujin - 04-25-2020
"too late" Is just a lazy way to not combat the issue, though yeah, of course you are correct with what you are saying, but just because it has existed for a while now and is in certain cases needed in our current preception of the game, doesn't mean something bad should remain the way it is.
Fact is, that its not innovative at all. Its sort of a sickness that needs to be removed. The game is complicated and beginner unfriendly as it is, even without this.
GR has introduced serval things, that one of those things just didn't quite work out in ambitions attempts to be unique is to be expected. I believe its not an good game desing choice to keep something in just because "We got used to it", while its actively causing problems with every person that stumbles over it for the frist time.
Its frankly very annoying for new people and the people that are nice enough to help with it. We have to take a hit somewhere, to make the game accessable for new players aswell. any bit that makes it easier for them, is good for the future of the game, I believe, to keep new blood flowing in.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Sawrock - 04-25-2020
It's actually very efficient to build without aptitude using a five-to-four stat build; you just need to hyperspecialize. Examples of such:
![[Image: ltHF1os.png]](https://i.imgur.com/ltHF1os.png)
![[Image: ZmVDRha.png]](https://i.imgur.com/ZmVDRha.png)
![[Image: IGIVTnz.png]](https://i.imgur.com/IGIVTnz.png)
Yeah, I know people call them "Sawrock builds", but they still work, and for that matter they wouldn't work if they used aptitude; since aptitude costs 6 points for a 1-point increase, I just plain wouldn't have enough points if I attempted to slot those in. Yeah, I would have more defense and such, but I wouldn't be able to be a dodge-tank of Kenn's sort or HP-tank of Darryn's sort (whose other method of survival is to simply kill the opponent first).
If you don't believe me that such builds are possible, I'd love to give you a practical demonstration.
In any case, aptitude is still a very good stat that can round out builds and provide different sorts of playstyles. It does, in my belief, increase the variety within the game and provides a choice for the player once they understand how to build with and without aptitude.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Neus - 04-25-2020
Like Sawrock said, you don't have to use APT for some builds. Many builds will benefit from it, but I don't think removing it would result in a positive change, personally.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Shujin - 04-25-2020
those are not efficient builds, those are really REALLY niche min max builds with massive flaws that are not anything a beginner wants to do, who doesn't know the game. Even in experinced hands those things die easily, and are just pretty cool gimmick builds.They need REALLY specifc set ups/equipment to even dream to function properly. they are called Sawrock builds for a reason. Cause Sawrock makes fun gimmickyl builds.
I had to explain this stuff to people over a hundred times by now, I don't think its healthy for the game if something is confusing the people so massively. Also it would at the very least be nice to actually write out what the stats do instead of just "Knowing it".
As someone who is basically always helping new players to try and get some footing in, this is by experince the most common "error" they make. I still believe its a terrible game design choice to just expect new people to get into the game with the know how, which Sawrock for example has, yet alone the resources to get those equipments.
Onc epeople understand it, its fine, that not the issue. But explaining this stuff in full to new people takes about 30-45 minutes each time and its always the same and it entirely "Wows" people. Literally.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Noxid - 04-25-2020
I don't really have anything to add other than to parrot the point that this is something that really screws up new players and I like Shujin have had to explain this to many newbies. At the very least could the exp boost from APT be listed on the stats screen? Might increase the chance that a newbie won't ignore this.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Miller - 04-26-2020
Removing aptitude would definitely remove a lot of build variety in the game as pointed out by Saw; but I can understand how it's confusing for new players, especially those that don't plan out a build in advance. (Which is pretty much all new players.)
I can agree with Noxid's suggestion, giving a new player more of a reason to consider APT by putting its benefits on the forefront would alleviate this issue.
I'd like to suggest this to be added as an in-game help tip as well, as much as they're joked about due to be dated or obvious. Something along the lines of "Aptitude increases your stats for every six scaled points; it also increases the exp you earn." would be nice.
SL2 in it's current state isn't friendly for newer players, but that's a topic for another thread.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Sawrock - 04-26-2020
If a new player puts points in aptitude, they're just as likely to lose fights as when they're not. It takes time to learn the system and options available in any game, and SL2 is no exception. Whether for PvP or for PvE, anything takes time to adjust to. I will agree they can learn better with taking aptitude, however. If there was some recommendation for new players to get aptitude, I'd be all for that. My builds only work with four-to-five stats anyways.
You say my builds die easily; look at Gowwel. Three out of the five stats he has are defensive stats. Yes, he has no crit evade. That's exactly what I intended the build to have because I understood how to fight against crit-users with such a build. He's defensive enough in all other regards. I understood the system of which he takes place in, and put him in a role that is feasible enough for him to be of use.
If you want to make the game more simple by removing aptitude, you're making the game easier to understand, yes, but you're removing the variety that makes the game so engaging in the first place.
Re: Remove Aptitude? - Autumn - 04-26-2020
An extra part of the tutorial added after the first jammer fight could be a good idea, have it so the first jammer fight levels the player automatically and teaches them about assigning stats and what each of the stats might do, or at the very least aptitude.
Re-doing all of the in-game tips would probably help new players a lot too.