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+--- Thread: Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) (/showthread.php?tid=6925)
Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) - Swiftkusura - 05-29-2020
Okay I'm going to make this short and narrow because I'm growing weary of Glykins being this godly race, quite litterally and metaphorically.
Why is it okay that we have to deal with people capable of making 60 scaled san builds as hyper doom walls and regenerate 50-60 hp a TURN while barely capable of feeling that level of damage in the first place?
Glykins have -4- passives that benefit them, FOUR, and not one thing stops them from being strong, not one drawback.
Glykins gain up to 30 regen with 72 sanctity and the ink for it, they gain status kill for big statuses that affect them based on faith, if a vampire bites them the vampire is hurt for doing so, and they're completely immune to poison which everyone says "Is supposed to counter tanks" why is none of this -wrong-
I got recently told "This class is bullshit because I a glykin built sanctity and it's definitely not my race and my racials that make it broken, no disregard my 60 hp regen from avalons it's FINE i promise it's the class"
There's my peace, I'm just sick of this glykin bias.
Re: Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) - Maksimum_Fire - 05-30-2020
I think it's important we take it easy as we address the problems faced here. I'll have to be real here and say that I've never struggled when fighting a glykin; that's anecdotal and not a consistent truth across the world, but I really just mean that... The tendency to over invest in SAN winds up shooting them in a foot in a couple ways, so if you just attack them. At least, that's what I've found in my experience; burst healing can keep them shored up, as well, but if you just focus on out damaging their healing enough- or abusing certain other mechanics within your class- the value that you tend to get out of just prioritizing damage over a Glykin's wonky investment tends to give you the upper hand. I think SAN-scaling weapons are pretty powerful, though, typically, especially since they benefit sound effects, which are difficult to resist. Combine that with the lovely status resistance from building SAN and FAI, another high stat from glykin, and their natural poison immunity, and it's definitely a good set of stats. But I think this culminates into one thing-
You can't rely on one method of attack. You can't rely on just inflicting, or dots, or kiting. You have to mix in different strategies. It's that that kind of adaptive playstyle that I've been trying to add to my own work in PvP lately. Before, as a gunner, I used to always die to engineers running armor of nails. Now, I have a few countermeasures that I can use, and I'm more equipped to switch off to a single shot gun if necessary; and I don't think I'll lose that matchup very easily now, even with the lead storm nerfs.
Also, from what I can tell- despite the apparent strength of glykin, people tend to avoid using them, from what I can tell. This might be because they're strong, or it might be because they're tricky to use, and it's hard for me to really say which. Lore could also be an impact, like with dullies... But in any case, I don't think we have a ton of strong examples of overwhelming or dominant glykin play. I'd be keen on watching any match data people have saved, though! There's lots to learn about the matchup, and if glykins are being avoided for some reason, it'd be good to hear from people what they think of glykin and see if there's adjustments we can shoot for to make it a more welcoming race.
I think I remember hearing about the discussion regarding rune mage and glykin; I'd agree that combo is insane, and I'm not really sure how I would approach it as a melee character. After all, rune mage totally walls out melee characters, attacks their vision, immobilizes them, and can do huge damage in short bursts. Combined with the base auto enchant of Talvyd, and you have a character that can kite very effectively while doing this. And if you combine all that with Glykin... It's not unlikely that you'll see exceedingly long matches. Glykin have 30 HP a turn they can get from scaling sanctity, and when you combine that with 30 HP a turn from other sources and the kiting abilities of Rune Mage, you wind up with a truly deadly combination, built for the long game.
I don't know if I'd call such playstyles inherently wrong, and I appreciate glykins and rune mage both as independent functions... I think the interaction between the two is what starts to get a little wacky.
TL;DR, I think we need to see more glykin fights and assess glykin counters a little bit more closely before any major nerfs. I got a little sidetracked by rune mage while thinking over how Glykin can rise to the top of the meta in certain situations, but I think those sorts of interactions are important to look at to; a race isn't a character without a class and all.
Re: Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) - Autumn - 05-30-2020
Glykins have a lot of things holding them back mostly in the stat department, their trivial usage of SAN towards their Regen often leaves people not investing at all and making usage of their poison immunity instead, their 2nd passive scales from FAI as well which may not fit in all of their builds.
On top of this they boast horribly low base DEF and RES, making them just a bit squishier effectively than other tanks might, I'd say that Glykins while strong are not egregiously so. You have other strong tank races like Doriad, Chataran and Zeran competing for them easily.
Dullahans and Liches are another department entirely, they're considered just a bit differently in strength due to their downsides that come with them, as well as the IC implications that come with them.
Re: Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) - Swiftkusura - 05-30-2020
Don't get me wrong, I don't think glykins overpowered, but it got me really boiled that someone excused a class as bullshit because their build was bullshit, like yes san builds exist but not everyone is capable of making them bullshit, why should they be punished because a glykin can do it in such a way that they make it imposing, that's just it, I don't think we should address the wrong situation when we all can agree glykins extremely safe to pick and powerful, most races have a flaw, or a special condition to their stuff, where they don't trigger unless you do this or they do this, glykins just "Yeah lemme heal 60 hp, resist statuses and poison, and fuck vampires"
Re: Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) - Senna - 05-30-2020
This seems more like strong hate than a balancing mention. Yes, Glykin can be strong if the player knows the game pretty well but they're not cancerous at the moment. Sure the race has so many bonus but it forces you to build oddly to even use some of those bonus. The race itself is gimmicky. I don't see a reason for it to be nerf or adjusted as yet. As far as it goes, it's a pretty okay race.
Don't compare it to Vampires. Vampires can be okay to wtfmeta if classes/trait their use to touched on once.
Re: Oh Glykan't I? (Glykin Balance) - Snake - 06-01-2020
Don't fix what's not broken.
Eyes on Mage and Magic's lacking counterplay and overpowered numbers is what we should be addressing. It indirectly is why Glykins are "super OP" right now. They can build for their 60% WIL/SAN custom tome they can buy for literally free in Karaten and spam sound damage while retaining their heavy regen for now drawbacks, status wise.